Who will be left in the Labour Party?

So effectively we now have two main political parties at the beck and call of a few rich donors. It doesn't bode well for democracy and ordinary people does it?
Thanks for posting that link Grany

Would the Brexit deal pass without Labour support? I thought some Tory MPs were going to oppose it? I can see that the deal does need to get passed, because it is better than no deal at all, but I don't understand why Labour should give it full endorsement if it would pass without them.
What is the reasoning behind Keir Starmer's decision?

Ilovecheese

Would the Brexit deal pass without Labour support? I thought some Tory MPs were going to oppose it? I can see that the deal does need to get passed, because it is better than no deal at all, but I don't understand why Labour should give it full endorsement if it would pass without them.
What is the reasoning behind Keir Starmer's decision?

I saw an article by Jonathon Lis in which he did the figures for different scenarios. The conclusion was that the number of ERG rebels wouldn't be sufficient to stop the bill passing whatever Labour did; oppose or abstain.

I'll try to find it if people would like me to.

I can't think why on earth Labour should support the tories to pass the bill. They'll just have guilt by association when it all goes pear shaped.

Ilovecheese

Would the Brexit deal pass without Labour support? I thought some Tory MPs were going to oppose it? I can see that the deal does need to get passed, because it is better than no deal at all, but I don't understand why Labour should give it full endorsement if it would pass without them.
What is the reasoning behind Keir Starmer's decision?

Sucking up to rich donors?????

There more usual assumption is that he's trying to appeal to the Red Wall voters.

But I'll leave you to the hate fest...

Who are these alleged rich donors ?

Is it assumed then that the Red Wall voters are in favour of a deal? If so, I can see the reasoning behind support for the deal. But didn't some of the Red Wall voters want no deal?

I suppose it's he "Get Brexit done" concept.
Annie you could read Gany's link but anyway
Lord Waheed Alli and Robert Latham donated £100,000 to Starmer.

Martin Taylor donated £95,000. Lord Clive Hollick and Sir Trevor Chinn donated £50,000.

"Red Wall voters" - do you mean the traditional labour voters in the NE who voted for brexit? if so, good point. Starmer could be trying to win them back. Still strange though.and a misjudgement on his part imo.
As has been said before, Starmer is clever and performs well at PMQ but is still very vague about his socialist principles.

In Wales the ‘red wall’ is the Welsh National Football Team’s fans, used before it was acquired as a political term!

I just don't know if he is doing the right thing or not. I have just read on another thread that those of the Northern Irish MPs who take their seats in the commons are going to vote against the deal. I wonder what their reasoning is.
The ERG are reported to be scrutinising the deal before making a decision, perhaps it would have been better if Keir Starmer had done the same, or would that make it more difficult to criticise parts of it later. Opinion does seem divided, I know that Neil Kinnock thinks the Labour party should vote against.

In supporting this trade agreement Starmer is doing "totally" the wrong thing. This so-called consensus will do enormous damage to many British industries, but in supporting this Bill the Labour Party will be unable to criticise this government for that damage for they will have assisted in bringing that harm about.

The agreement has only one benefit as it secures British fresh, chilled and frozen food supplies from Europe. However, much bureaucracy will be introduced to food transport along with all other freight. Therefore, the Labour Party should abstain in the Parliamentary vote on the Bill which will enable it to criticise in the House of Commons in the future the disastrous fallout that will undoubtedly come from passing this trade agreement.

Kier Starmer leads Her Majesty's Opposition and it must always remain in a position to do just that. Many Labour MPs realise that situation and will oppose the Bill even though the party whip is being imposed.

Of course, "Dictator" Starmer ploughs on, once again demonstrating he has no perception. In that, he seems unable to realise he is placing the Labour Party and all its MPs in an impossible position for the future.

It is time for a radical change in left political thinking in Britain.

OK, it will not be quite as bad as no deal, but this is why the Liberal Democrats will not support Johnson's bad deal.

twitter.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1342847640871047171?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Thank you for that, varian I was wondering about their reasoning, so their not voting for the deal will make it easier to criticise it later on, when the limitations and extra bureaucracy become more obvious.
Difficult decision though, they certainly don't want no deal.

Thirty seven Labour MPs defied the imposed Labour Party whip yesterday to vote against The European Union future relationship bill with that number including three front bench members.

The above marked the lowest day in Kier Starmer's short leadership of the party as it was demonstrated that he is now unable to control a significant number in the Parliamentary Party.

The Bill would have past in Parliament without Labour support, and in that, it became obvious that many of the rebels were voting against Starmer as leader along with their opposition to the Bill.

Should Peace & Justice become a political party in January (as very many are hoping) then those thirty seven along with others could form its foundation in Parliament.

Well let’s hope that they form their own party Retiredwell, in the long term that is the best solution for British politics.

Casdon

Well let’s hope that they form their own party Retiredwell, in the long term that is the best solution for British politics.

I agree Casdon. A left wing party well funded by the broader Labour movement in Britain that holds the core values of the of that movement as its core policies could be very attractive to many in the electorate.

Should that new party also be pro European then it could be Britains rallying point for the first real steps towards the United Kingdom re-joining the EU.

We can only hope, but it is becoming a real prospect I feel.

Is there a script that you follow?

Weren’t the 37 who voted against the Labour Party whip Jeremy Corbin supporters anyway so they’re bound to oppose any direction from Keir Starmer.

Yes Gwyneth they were. I really do hope the far left break away and form their own party, then the remaining three quarters of the party can rebuild, The destructive infighting will cease, and the public will have clarity about what they are voting for at the next election.

No script Galaxy just plain facts. I am interested to hear what Retiredwell has to say. People are questioning Starmer's leadership and the decisions he's made.
And Gwyneth MPs vote with their conscience on something as important as this bad deal. Labour didn't need to vote as there was a majority of Tories backing it.

Casdon

Yes Gwyneth they were. I really do hope the far left break away and form their own party, then the remaining three quarters of the party can rebuild, The destructive infighting will cease, and the public will have clarity about what they are voting for at the next election.

Quite correct again casdon. The electorate would have a clear choice, being, a true left wing party with equality and fairness for working families as its core policies. Opposed to that there would be a Tory party mark two with a leader who cares to dictate to its party members rather than having membership democracy at its core.

The far left leader lost two general elections and the far left
want to lose a 3rd

I cannot understand why anyone would want to split the main opposition party?

If this does happen they are handing the keys of No.10 to the Conservatives for the foreseeable future.

If the Labour Party really cared for the population of the UK it would be working its socks off to unite all factions of the party in order to launch an election campaign to win the next GE.

The only solution is a split I think. The party can’t succeed when there are such opposing factions. Interesting times ahead, but I don’t think everybody with influence, or the majority of supporters will be writing Starmer off in the way those on the far left would like them to.