New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

Just heard Gove lying again on the radio. Had to switch off. Trying to pretend it would all be so much better and much smoother filling in umpteen forms and sod the fishermen and Northern Ireland.

If that's what you wanted to hear from it then I'm happy for you.
I read the article he wrote on today's paper and it seems better than I'd thought. Why would he lie by the way? The info is all all available to be read.

Gove tried to tell us that having to fill in all these extra forms (at a cost estimated by HMRC of £7 billion) would make UK businesses "match fit" for tradinv with the rest of the world.

Unbelie eable!!! Just shows his utter contempt for the listeners !

Why would Gove lie? Are you serious?

Why would he lie by the way? The info is all all available to be read.

Gove has consistently lied ever since he became a key member of the Vote Leave campaign. His lies are well documented and available to anyone who cares to look for them.
He lies because he knows that most of the people who he's lying to either have their biases confirmed by his lies, or will take him at face value and not bother to check.

Of course, it's not always outright lies; sometimes it's more a case of truth twisting...

Of course, his prime reason for lying at the moment is that he cannot possibly admit that it's a thin deal that will cause costly inconvenience to businesses and erosion of our economy. He lies because he has to.

We still haven't heard everything on the EU Treaty yet. Boris has trumpeted the good bits but I wouldn't mind betting there are some more unpleasant parts of it which will come to light gradually over the next few weeks. Overall, it is better than a no-deal.

david thank you for that. So we have definitely left Galileo? Seems a shame as isn’t it the most accurate system? Well, I suppose the USA intelligence have a more accurate one for killing people.

Gove doesn’t have to lie.

They all choose to. Populists do that.

Just catching up on yesterday’s Sunday Telegraph ....

“The reactions seem, at first blush, to be back to front. Eurosceptics are supposed to want looser ties with the EU, yet they are applauding a long and comprehensive agreement with it. Europhiles are meant to love Brussels, but they can’t disguise their annoyance that a deal has been done.

Here, fairly typically, is Anna Soubry, who left the Conservatives to campaign against Brexit: “Never before has a country so spectacularly shot itself in the foot. We are no longer ‘Great’ Britain or a United Kingdom.” This, remember, is not her response to leaving the EU, which happened 11 months ago; it is her response to agreeing cordial relations.

Neither Soubry nor anyone else has had a chance to digest the 1,246 pages of text, of course. The treaty was published only yesterday. But ignorance has not stopped people opining with certainty and, often, with fury.”

I don’t know anyone annoyed that a deal has been done when the alternative is no deal.

I’ve only seen that opinion from Brexiteers & the Torygraph.

(Anyone who voted Remain). The headbanging faction may be annoyed, I don’t know.

I think what is beginning to emerge is that businesses like German car industry, manufacturing etc in European countries had pressured Brussels to negotiate a tariff free deal, that has been achieved.

The service sector which is the uks biggest sector by income, appear to have been sidelined in the interests of Eoropean manufacturing.

Poor show on our part.

Urmstongran

Just catching up on yesterday’s Sunday Telegraph ....

“The reactions seem, at first blush, to be back to front. Eurosceptics are supposed to want looser ties with the EU, yet they are applauding a long and comprehensive agreement with it. Europhiles are meant to love Brussels, but they can’t disguise their annoyance that a deal has been done.

Here, fairly typically, is Anna Soubry, who left the Conservatives to campaign against Brexit: “Never before has a country so spectacularly shot itself in the foot. We are no longer ‘Great’ Britain or a United Kingdom.” This, remember, is not her response to leaving the EU, which happened 11 months ago; it is her response to agreeing cordial relations.

Neither Soubry nor anyone else has had a chance to digest the 1,246 pages of text, of course. The treaty was published only yesterday. But ignorance has not stopped people opining with certainty and, often, with fury.”

Absolutely, which is what I have been saying too.
It’s amusing to watch the EU fans squeaking indignantly about the deal, when they have spent all year crowing that
‘Johnson didn’t want a deal’ and that they ‘hoped all who voted Brexit would now pay the price of highly expensive food in the shops or face empty shelves’!
Even on GN posters are claiming they know all aspects of the deal.....and think it’s a ‘poor’ or a ‘thin’ deal ( parroting what they have read somewhere) hilarious.?

Yes of course I am really fucked off that I am more likely to be able to get my son’s medication I really wanted him to risk a seizure so I could say ‘told you so’.

EU fans “squeaking “. “Crowing”. And “parroting “. Apparently....

One of the most embarrassing things (amongst many) is that we seem to be the only country on earth who negotiated to make it more difficult to trade with ourselves.

Lucca

EU fans “squeaking “. “Crowing”. And “parroting “. Apparently....

????.

The reaction to/interpretation of Remainers' comments by our merry band of Leavers is laughably well wide of the mark.

I think I wouldn't be wrong to say that, on the whole, we're (i.e Remainers) deeply relieved that we won't be plunged into a no deal nightmare but amused that Leavers think that the rather pathetic deal that keeps us closely bound to the EU (which we have no objection at all to) is somehow a triumph.

The text has been 'obtainable', even if not officially published, since at least Christmas Eve and many experts have been scrutinising it over the Christmas period and commenting on social media. Where, if you care to look you'll find lots of detail.

silly, pathetic and disgraceful language- and says more about the users than ...

Anyhow, we are not all experts, but the key is to know enough to ascertain which experts, who have gone through the Deal with a toothcombe, with their expert assistants and huge experience- to trust or not to trust. And those with the qualification and experience in abundance tell me it is a very poor, thin, Deal, with huge gaps- which is just about slightly better than No Deal.

Many of us have posted their detailed findings btw.

Lucca

EU fans “squeaking “. “Crowing”. And “parroting “. Apparently....

Yes, ?birds of a feather flock together ( apparently)

Nezumi65

Why would Gove lie? Are you serious?

Some of us remember when he lied about his own father, don’t we! When his father had to put the record straight.

Not the exclusive tendency of EU supporters ? Brexiteers also hunt as a pack....

Btw It’s now all just ‘us’ not Leavers or Remainers... merry bands or otherwise.Time to stop the recriminations about the referendum, anger about leaving the EU ( we have left) and constant faux outrage about the deal....Especially as you don’t really know what’s in it ( whatever is claimed on social media).

I don’t have faux outrage about the deal. I just can’t understand why services (which produce 80% of our GDP blah blah blah) hasn’t been negotiated yet.