New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

MaizieD

biba70

Well they did not put THIS on a bus either, and itis perhaps of the most worrying statement coming out since the Deal

British citizens arrested overseas through no fault of their own have no right to the government’s assistance or protection, even if they are tortured or held as diplomatic leverage against their country, the Foreign Office has said.

Never thought they Priti and co would sink so so low.

I think that deserves a thread of its own Biba70

This isn’t to do with leaving the EU.
The British Government has never had a legal right to either help or expedite from jail / police custody British citizens arrested in another country anywhere in the world.
If you are arrested, you ask for a visit from the nearest British Embassy/ Consulate who will come to see you, let your relatives know what’s happening and arrange for post and parcels etc for you.
In the case of Nazarin Ratcliffe ( unsure of spelling) the FO took the unusual step of giving her ‘diplomatic protection’ which elevated her case, but even then had no legal charge to do more.Given that the country is Iran and they don’t recognise dual nationality there was never going to be much the FO could do, but in giving diplomatic protection, it made the world aware of how badly Iran was behaving.

To present this as somehow new, and changes come about due to Brexit for British citizens is a pathetic attempt to lay something false at the government’s door.

It is, in fact, nothing to do with Brexit.
What lemongrove has posted is fact and not new and I am surprised people are not aware of this.

Wow - the remoaners are out in force - even following a successful trade deal! Obviously we will continue talking to the EU in the coming months about services and other issues not contained in the "Brexit" deal - however I fail to see how anyone (remainer or leaver) would not be happy with a decent trade deal with the EU. We now have the best of both worlds - freedom to make our own trade deals around the world (more than 60 have already been agreed) plus a comprehensive no tariffs/quotas free trade deal with the EU. As for bailing out of the EU joint security issues - we are part of the "five eyes" security program in conjunction with America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - there isn't anything better when it comes to security. And, of course, we plan to launch our own satellites in due course to replace Gallileo. I find it sad that so many people believe the UK cannot survive without being in the EU - of course time will tell but I am optimistic for the future.

Saetana

Wow - the remoaners are out in force - even following a successful trade deal! Obviously we will continue talking to the EU in the coming months about services and other issues not contained in the "Brexit" deal - however I fail to see how anyone (remainer or leaver) would not be happy with a decent trade deal with the EU. We now have the best of both worlds - freedom to make our own trade deals around the world (more than 60 have already been agreed) plus a comprehensive no tariffs/quotas free trade deal with the EU. As for bailing out of the EU joint security issues - we are part of the "five eyes" security program in conjunction with America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - there isn't anything better when it comes to security. And, of course, we plan to launch our own satellites in due course to replace Gallileo. I find it sad that so many people believe the UK cannot survive without being in the EU - of course time will tell but I am optimistic for the future.

Saetana, we havn’t got a trade deal, the agreement is no tarrifs as long as we comply with their standards, all that does is commit us to continuous haggling over what we can send them. For anyone exporting to the EU it’s a nightmare because proof of origin will be needed for everything involved and comply with EU law.
As for Galileo we are not going to build our own system, that was an incredibly stupid idea, Galileo has at least 10 yrs start of the technology, dozens of countries are adopting it as a civilian location and communication system, probably we will rejoin fairly soon.
Our terrorist, smuggling and criminal threat comes from Europe not the US or Australia loosing that cooperation will hinder security considerably
Make the most of this free tarrif period, if we do diverge from their rules it will cost us dear, all for the sake of sovereignty we havn’t got.

The trade deals so far agreed are largely a replica of the ones we already had via the EU. We now have a worse deal with our nearest neighbour & red tape (as we do not have frictionless trade) means that business will probably slowly relocate (that slow puncture).

I’m sure we’ll survive being a bit poorer & trade isn’t the be all and end all.

I am saddened by the loss of links such as Erasmus (which is being replaced by something only aimed at university students - so much for levelling up), & the loss of freedom of movement (for most - I have lost it, but can’t live or work abroad now anyway, luckily my children retain that right via their father).

As have said repeatedly leaving the EU saddens me. The wave of populism and populist narrative that seems part of Brexit sicken me.

And before someone says ‘after Erasmus people will be able to do exchanges All over the world’ you already can. I have several friends with kids in Russia, know several who went to Japan & China.

But those has different funding and were limited to university students.

Check out the new Turing scheme. Looks good.

saetana please do not continue to label “remoaner” anyone who fails to wet themselves with excitement over the poor deal this government has largely compromised on, and are now spinning as some great opportunity when in fact it is putting us at a much worse position at a far greater cost. I’m sure you would not like to be labelled a “brexshitter ” for believing and repeating all the spin.

This government has proposed all sorts of schemes like giving laptops and tutors to schools and failed to deliver. Many of their promises about “levelling up”, “we will introduce this that and the other legislation”, “employ thousand of new nurses”etc are best left to the saying “ don’t hold your breath”.

vegansrock

saetana please do not continue to label “remoaner” anyone who fails to wet themselves with excitement over the poor deal this government has largely compromised on, and are now spinning as some great opportunity when in fact it is putting us at a much worse position at a far greater cost. I’m sure you would not like to be labelled a “brexshitter ” for believing and repeating all the spin.

I think that your term for a leave voter is far worse than remoaner!

Also I am getting weary of people claiming that those who voted leave only made their decision in the couple of years before the vote, The implication that everyone was swayed by lies told by Farage and Co,

There has been Eurosceptics since we entered in the 70s.

I voted to stay but I cannot understand why some people seem to find it so hard to accept. We don't always get our own way. A lesson we teach our children and grandchildren.

I am also surprised that some of the supposed intellectuals in the Remain camp are claiming that Brexit has caused the government to back out of assisting people abroad. As lemongrove said this is nothing new.

david 7.28.

Good post. Agree with it all.

Jane10

Check out the new Turing scheme. Looks good.

Did you not read Nezumi's comment on the loss of Erasmus? It pointed out that the Turing scheme is restricted to university students. Are you not aware that Erasmus was much wider in scope? Also the new scheme will not cover tuition costs, whereas Erasmus did?

I also understand that the UK benefited economically from the Erasmus students who came to the UK, whereas the new scheme has no reciprocity.

It seems to me that, like we are replacing our excellent EU deal with a very second rate one, we are replacing the excellent Erasmus with second rate Turing.

Well said Lucretzia. Whoever had led the talks with the U.K., we were never going to get everything we wanted. It is a negotiation, which means compromise.
The U.K.’s wishes were up against the wants of 28 other countries.
I am not sure Nezumi that Human Rights will be lost. After all, it was the U.K. that led with that.
All we can do now is wait and see. Whilst I wanted to stay and was disappointed with the referendum result, it was a democratic vote. There will never be a time when everyone’s wishes can be granted.

It’s not about ‘not getting our way’ - that narrative is nonsense. Criticising the deal and being sad that we have left & will be a poorer country for it (& I am not just talking economics) is not a toddler tantrum. I have friends that have already left the U.K. because of Brexit. One example - Japanese friends who were funded by an EU grant -, they had to move to Germany. I believe the country is poorer for them going. They wanted to stay, have lived here since the 90’s & had even bought a house here. I suspect more friends will follow.

I shall support any campaigns for closer ties to Europe in the future & am delighted my own children and grandchildren will still have the option of freedom of movement. I hope that will be something that their generation as a whole will be able regain.

That’s not stamping feet about not getting our own way. It’s about securing a better future for our children and grandchildren.

Tweedle - the Tories have been trying to get rid of the HRA for the ‘British Rights’ for years. It will unfortunately be a bit easier for them to do that now. It will put people like my son, who is fully reliant on State care, at real risk.

Hopefully they’ll be so tied up in Brexit & all the bits that haven’t been negotiated and all the challenges they won’t get round to it.

Jane10

Check out the new Turing scheme. Looks good.

The Turing scheme is an unfortunate name given the way the poor man was treated by the government and establishment.

The scheme benefits the wealthy and not the poorer student..

I expect nothing more from this rentier government.

We don't know what's in the future

I'm sure that a few years from now nobody will be talking about our decision to leave the EU.

At the moment the pandemic is what's concerning people.

We tend to think we're incredibly important. We're not. We are on this earth for a very short time.

It's quite pointless to be discussing this as if we can change it. We can't.

Certainly not in our lifetimes

And anecdotal evidence is pointless. I've been told that many times on GN.

Of course we can change things. Over the next few years is when a lot of negotiating will still be going on. We can campaign to keep us closer to Europe.

The Turing scheme looks extremely underfunded if it is to replace Erasmus & is one way only - we can campaign about that.

I campaign for human rights for people with learning disabilities anyway and will continue to do so - especially with the rise of populism.

That’s for starters. Certainly won’t be sitting back until the next election and leaving this shower to it.

And given one way this government works seems to be to leak their latest plan to certain members of the press then sit back and judge the reaction, for once it makes sense to shout.

I'm sure that a few years from now nobody will be talking about our decision to leave the EU.

I wouldnt be betting on that, the agreement has been left very open to changes in the future which will make the headlines. I genuinely hope there are positive aspects to leaving the E.U. , so far I have only heard aspirations. Any new trade deals we do have are going to have to take into account the trade lost with the E.U.
I would be less concerned if we were about to become a great trading nation at the forefront of technology, ready to manufacture and sell our goods around the world. But we’re not most of our GDP is consumed internally, our trade deficit increases annually, we have been selling our infrastructure and are increasingly dependant on overseas finance to plug the gap.

I really would like a reason to be optimistic for the New Year

And if all discussion was pointless then GN and MN would not exist. I find the trying to stop different points of view quite tiring.

Galaxy

And if all discussion was pointless then GN and MN would not exist. I find the trying to stop different points of view quite tiring.

I'm not trying to stop different points of view at all. I did vote to stay in the EU and am saddened we've left.

However I am entitled to express my opinion. I just can't understand the mindset of those who cannot accept a done deal. Not that it's a great deal.

I find it quite interesting actually.

We are still European after all. Nothing can change that.

If the President of the CBI, a vocal remainer, can see positivity in this deal then why can't we?

'This is a big step and a mighty relief for many firms. With a trade deal agreed, vaccine roll-outs starting and rapid mass testing, this can be a springboard to make 2021 a year of recovery.

'Importantly, a deal provides a platform on which to build and strengthen the UK-EU relationship in the years to come.'

Good luck with your campaigning, Nezumi65

Why do you keep saying we’re not accepting a done deal?

The deal isn’t complete, lots to still be negotiated. We don’t now sit in suspended animation forever with nothing ever changing. Why on earth wouldn’t someone try to campaign for a better future?

Most of my campaigning energy goes on improving the rights of people with learning disabilities. So thank you.

The issue with fish, for instance, as agreed by Johnson, means the negotiations will go on for a full TEN years.