New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

vegansrock

So NI will be funded by Dublin to remain in EHIC and Erasmus - seems the U.K. government is doing with Brexit what the IRA failed to achieve.

Lots about the impact on Northern Ireland pushes it closer to Eire. I’m surprised more hasn’t been said about it on the news etc.

A sweetener from Dublin eh?
Wonder what’s in it for them (she muses ...)

Brexit pushes NI & Eire closer together in all sorts of new ways - and that’s as a result of our govts negotiating, not Eire. I suspect that Eire will benefit as Scotland loses out They’ve put a border between GB & NI - so of course they will be pushed together.

Dublin has always treated people born on the island of Ireland as Irish. Thank goodness - that’s why my kids and grandchildren qualify for an Irish passport.

Nezumi65

vegansrock

So NI will be funded by Dublin to remain in EHIC and Erasmus - seems the U.K. government is doing with Brexit what the IRA failed to achieve.

Lots about the impact on Northern Ireland pushes it closer to Eire. I’m surprised more hasn’t been said about it on the news etc.

Because it doesn’t suit the media, it has been feared from 2016 that the Tories will do for the United Kingdom.

They’ve almost succeeded.

Yes I agree.

Urmstongran

A sweetener from Dublin eh?
Wonder what’s in it for them (she muses ...)

Does it matter what's in it for them?

The outcome is likely to be a united island of Ireland. One of the ferry companies has already rescheduled routes to bypass the UK and go directly to France.

I wish I had a claim to an Irish passport.

I've also noticed an increasing amount of PR, advertising Eire as an English-speaking gateway to Europe and promotion of the Irish economy as dynamic and forward-thinking.

Surely this is a natural ending? Forever, they were one island until the unnatural schism split them apart. I’m pleased if they’re happy with it.

Pantglas2

Surely this is a natural ending? Forever, they were one island until the unnatural schism split them apart. I’m pleased if they’re happy with it.

You have never been to Northern Ireland if you think it will be that simple. The peace is fragile & if you think only nationalists are terrorists then when a united Ireland looks likely you’ll see that is not at all the case.

The lack of care given to Northern Ireland in this whole process infuriates me. The GFA was a huge achievement & has changed Northern Ireland so much for the better - all put at risk by a bunch of right wingers in Westminster.

And a minority that holds too much power and power that is growing. It is frightening.

Economically, there would be little benefit to the ROI to unite with NI, they would have to take over all the welfare benefits, health care, education etc etc for the population. It is therefore an ideological desire to treat anyone on the island as Irish.

In a way it doesn’t matter whether they do or don’t - it’s the risk Brexit poses to the fragile peace that infuriates me. The country certainly isn’t ready for a peaceful reunification yet. Brexit unbalances it because EU membership was what allowed it to work.

A United Ireland is not going to happen anytime soon, politically it’s just not worth the disruption it would cause, free movement will gradually reduce the divisions in the North to a point where they don’t matter. For everyday proposes Ulster will become another province and influence from UK will diminish over the years, because that’s what the majority of the population will vote for.
Time scale 50 Yrs

I agree with your timescale / providing brexit doesn’t unbalance the peace.

If this agreement brings a united Ireland closer then that will be the only benefit Britain leaving the European Union delivers to anyone.

Britain should not have held on to a presence in Ireland when it became an independent state. Now would be an excellent time to right that wrong.

Retiredwell - unionists would not go quietly or peacefully.

Whether or not it remains part of the U.K. should be up to the people living there - unfortunately the communities are still roughly 50:50 so any move to reunification is very likely to be destabilising - and unfortunately the northern Irish population will pay the price. I assume that’s why the SDLP are voting alongside the DUP and against the deal today.

This is good summary of the northern Irish political view www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55462155

Interesting that the lack of certainty seems to be of concern to may of the Parties.

The hardline Unionists will simply be voted out of power, the benefits of being closer to Ireland will be more than the UK offers.

Retiredwell "Britain should not have held on to a presence in Ireland when it became an independent state."

It is not as simple as "Britain holding on to a presence" There are two conflicting aspirations in the Province to be reconciled. About half of the people living in Northern Ireland wanted to continue being a part of Britain. They were mainly Protestant descendants of those who went there three or four hundred years ago. They had roots there - family farms and businesses and ancestors in the graveyards - and had/have as much right to stay and choose their nationality and governance as the Palestinians who were dislodged when the State of Israel was renewed.

What Elegran said

David - I think that is a long way off.

The differences will hopefully diminish over time, especially as the Catholic population will outnumber the Protestants in NI in a few years time if they don’t already. I don’t think you can compare N I unionists with Palestinians it’s more the other way round surely, it was the Protestant in comers who seized land from the native Irish population

it was the Protestant in comers who seized land from the native Irish population

If you're going to refer back to things that happened 400/500 years ago you'll get nowhere with a solution for NI.

How long does a family have to be settled in a country for them to become 'Irish', or 'Scottish', or 'Canadian', or any other 'nationality? Narratives which boil down to 'we were here first (albeit hundreds of years ago)' aren't helpful. We know that from experience of 'The Troubles'.

I agree that the divisions run deep, but a community lives in Ireland for hundreds of years, yet still doesn’t consider themselves Irish is rather perverse and obviously has its roots in religious differences. the influence of organised religion will wane as it has done just about everywhere else in the U.K. and Ireland. No easy solution, but if it’s about majority rule nationalists will outnumber the unionists very soon if they don’t already. This will shift the balance.

I think you have to spend time in Northern Ireland to understand that a) change is not going to happen quickly and b) there is no one absolute right to the land/identity.

This is where the GFA was so genius. It allowed people to choose to identify as Irish or British allowing for a (sometimes uneasy) peace. The GFA worked because both sides were Europeans which is why this is such a risky time. Republicans will not want to be forced to identify as British & Unionists will not tolerate any pushing closer to Eire.

I doubt Johnson and his ilk even gave any of this more than 2 seconds of thought.