New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

Vegansrock - have you ever spent any time in a unionist community in NI? They really are not going to say ‘oh yep we’re Irish now and are outnumbered so will look to Dublin’. It’s nowhere near that stage.

I agree with you nezumi that change won’t happen overnight, and the Westminster government don’t give a stuff about NI. As proven by the EU treaty

Nezumi I am not sure the Tories want human rights per se to go away. The reason a lot of people voted for Brexit was to maintain sovereignty and, having to defer to the European Courts was one of the objections to remaining within the EU.

As I said, I voted to stay so, have no real drum to beat to support Brexit. I just accept that it was a democratic vote although, I still wonder about the validity of a result that was so close, particularly when so many did not even bother to vote at all.

They’re not keen on human rights for prisoners tweedle - & have been fed years of bullshit from the likes of the Mail.

Oh dear - We’re going to have lots of these snippets aren’t we? To the point we’ll become deaf to them

twitter.com/hackedoffhugh/status/1343890893745565696?s=21

Tweedle24

Nezumi I am not sure the Tories want human rights per se to go away. The reason a lot of people voted for Brexit was to maintain sovereignty and, having to defer to the European Courts was one of the objections to remaining within the EU.

As I said, I voted to stay so, have no real drum to beat to support Brexit. I just accept that it was a democratic vote although, I still wonder about the validity of a result that was so close, particularly when so many did not even bother to vote at all.

Well, I'm afraid that they got completely (and probably deliberately) confused when it came to Human Rights and European courts.

The European Court of Justice (EJC) is an EU court set up to resolve disputes between member states over matters concerning EU law and regulations.

The European Court of Human Rights has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU. So, if people were voting Leave to do away with association with that court they were pretty stupid, weren't they?

It has been the avowed intention of our government to 'amend' the UK Human Rights legislation; which, given the composition of the cabinet of hardline anti-liberals, is hardly going to involve improving our rights under the law, is it? It seems more likely that they will be removing rights...

Lots of people wonder about the validity of the vote.

Particularly as it was achieved through lies, fraud and cheating and it was admitted by the government's advocate, in court, that the government knew it was dodgy but couldn't void it because it hadn't been mandatory...

Nezumi65

Oh dear - We’re going to have lots of these snippets aren’t we? To the point we’ll become deaf to them

twitter.com/hackedoffhugh/status/1343890893745565696?s=21

The greatest irony is that the disconsolate eel breeder who regrets voting Leave was actually a huge Brexit supporter and featured in a UKIP pre-ref. propaganda video

This is where the GFA was so genius. It allowed people to choose to identify as Irish or British allowing for a (sometimes uneasy) peace. The GFA worked because both sides were Europeans which is why this is such a risky time. Republicans will not want to be forced to identify as British & Unionists will not tolerate any pushing closer to Eire.

This needs repeating over and over again. GENIUS.

Brexit puts this all on a knife edge again. The topic has been mentioned on here a few times in the last 4 years. I can assure you, from experience, that Leavers don't give a shiny sh*t about their vote endangering the GFA. Despite most of them having lived through the 30 year horror of 'The Troubles'...

Anyone who thought many fishing rights would be gained by the UK was a fool, even if they did they couldn’t find UK crews for the boats. I expected some extra to help the small local boats but even that looks pretty slim, my thoughts were that it would all be negotiated away - and it was.

At the end of the day far more valuable deals had too be done and fishing was far too small, so was sacrificed. That’s Politics.

I will be voting against the Boris Johnson Brexit Agreement . Just finished discussions with @allianceparty members.

We remain strongly pro-European and are not prepared to give legitimacy or acquiescence to a hard Brexit which damages Northern Ireland.

Stephen Farry MP

Those MP’s voting against the ‘thin’ deal are just exercising a protest vote. They know if it doesn’t pass, then from Friday, it’d be No Deal.
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Yes, it's not the deal these critics have an issue with. No deal of any kind will ever be good enough for them, because their issue is with the fact we've left. They've never come to terms with this and never will.

However, to maintain the pretence that they have the public's interests at heart, they aim their ire at the contents of the deal.

Two excellent speeches from Meg Hillier and Daniel Zeichner, both Labour MPs, explaining why they cannot support this bad deal.

A lot of the MPs voting against were northern Irish MPs - from across the political divide. They had very good reasons for voting against.

I am hoping Brexit will tie them up so much Maizie that there will be no time to take aim at the HRA. Fingers crossed!

Tweedle24 Wed 30-Dec-20 11:37:49

As I said, I voted to stay so, have no real drum to beat to support Brexit. I just accept that it was a democratic vote although, I still wonder about the validity of a result that was so close, particularly when so many did not even bother to vote at all

One thing is for sure though. If the result had been the reverse there would have not been any argument. Cameron would have claimed it as a mandate and that would have been that. Nobody would have said it was a close call, Brexit supporters would have been dismissed as poor losers.

spangler the differece is that if remain had won,nothing would have changed.We wouln't lose EU workers or the ability to travel freely amongst a multitude of other things.Brexit will disrupt lives and businesses the length and breadth of these islands ,unecessarily so.All because some crooked tories want to avoid tax on there money in offshore accounts.
I see they are considering a knighthood for Farage.....who made sure HIS family have EU passports

One thing is for sure though. If the result had been the reverse there would have not been any argument. Cameron would have claimed it as a mandate and that would have been that. Nobody would have said it was a close call, Brexit supporters would have been dismissed as poor losers.

Lots of ifs...

If the referendum had been properly constructed and mandatory instead of advisory there would have been much more confidence in the validity of the result. As it was, the result was so close that a period of planning ang consultation should have taken place. As it was, the tories panicked, panicked to a man and woman and completely lost whatever small amounts of sense they ever had.

From first to last it's been a complete and utter pigs ear.

Now we have had Parliamentary democracy completely removed from us. The Bill just passed by the Commons was an Enabling Act. It gave the Executive unlimited powers, and, what is more, gave it the powers to over ride the devolved governments..

The future looks very grim...

If you remember, Farage said before the referendum that if the result was narrowly in favour of Remain, he would go on pushing for a rerun...

MaizieD Wed 30-Dec-20 18:42:07

The future looks very grim...

My father said that in 1951.

At the end of WW2 it was expected that Churchill would win the election with a landslide, instead it was Clement Richard Attlee, 1st Earl Attlee, KG, OM, CH, PC, FRS who came to power. His government brought in the welfare revolution. We had the welfare state, the NHS and nationalised power, as in coal and steel, as well as nationalised distribution. To quote Jeremy Corbin, it was most definitely a program, for the many not the few.

In 1951, to my father's despair, Attlee lost the general election, but my Dad remembered Churchill's words in 1945, when he had lost to Attlee. "If it's good enough for the British people, it's good enough for me. Dad told me, through gritted teeth, that if you don't accept the ballot, the alternative is the bullet. That's why I have always accepted the result of any ballot.

Is no-one excited that we are free of the shackles of the EU? I can’t be the lone voice, surely?

Yes there were benefits but we won’t sink you know. Things will be done differently but I truly believe that things will be done better on our own. We can be nimble (look at the roll out earlier than the EU of the vaccine thanks to our own scientists). We can prosper mightily!

I’m happy anyway.
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So many gloomy posts on GN threads!

We need you, Urmstongran!

I find it difficult to be so negative

The vote didn't go my way but I'm sure that the world will still turn and its pointless to dwell too much

We're all insignificant in the greater scheme of things

So I share your optimism

Well, I find the death of democracy too upsetting to accept it without making my feelings known.

So don't expect the gloom to lift any time soon...

No, you're not a lone voice Urmstongran and although I don't often post on the news and politics forum, I read the threads and I for one am thankful for your sensible and optimistic posts. Thank you.

Well said Lucretia and Smileless
Take a recommend!
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Any more lurkers out there who would just like to post how happy they actually are at this historic moment?
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C’mon. Be brave!
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?A very happy bunny here Urms ?

Indeed LauraNorder !
Take a recommend too.
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I’m convinced there are many on GN who are pleased Brexit has finally been delivered!

This day is high on ceremony, the Brexit trade deal has been signed in Brussels before being brought to London aboard an RAF jet for the Prime Minister to sign the document at No 10.

In Parliament, our MPs and peers were recalled from their Christmas break and have sped through the European Union (Future Relationship) Bill through all of its stages so that it can become law by the end of the day, including the granting of Royal Assent by the Queen.

It will then come into effect at 11pm tomorrow night – midnight Brussels time – when the Brexit transition period ends and Britain formally leaves the single market and the customs union.

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