New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

jane10 Just sums it up!

You're slightly out on your figures there maizied , 43% of our FS were with the EU and 34% them with us.

growstuff As out net contribution to the EU was much larger than what we received ( even with the rebate) we were actually paying for the privilege.

true blue being outside the EU is going to cost us a lot more and we lose the privileges. You must have believed the bus lie.

trueblue22

growstuff As out net contribution to the EU was much larger than what we received ( even with the rebate) we were actually paying for the privilege.

We stand to lose much more from leaving the EU. Even the optimists think that GDP will go down by 4% - and that's on top of any fallout from Covid-19.

Of course, there will be a handful of people who will profit from deregulation. Maybe you're one of them. If not, you'd better get used to tightening your belt. I hope it was worth it for a blue passport (made in Poland by a French-Dutch company).

lemongrove

What sour grapes growstuff

Been on the grapes yourself, eh?

If we really haven’t negotiated anything for 80% of our GDP (services) then the 4% drop in GDP (the figure I have seen as well) will no doubt be dropping a lot further.

"true bluebeing outside the EU is going to cost us a lot more and we lose the privileges. You must have believed the bus lie."

The 'privilege' of paying vast sums to them each year and getting very little in return. The fact that we were not allowed to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world. The fact that the laws of a large undemocratic block took precedence over our own democratic Parliament....etc. No, no, no!

Sour grapes= continue to point out that this deal takes away more than it gives and it is the only treaty in history to negotiate removing benefits and imposing more barriers to trade. But it’s not about the economy is it? it’s about nostalgia, dislike of foreign influence and foreigners and the belief that Britain is superior and needs special treatment. Ok if you want to believe that, enjoy your wallow, but don’t forget a vast number of fellow citizens is not supportive of this crock of proverbial.

trueblue well we had free trade deals with 80 other countries asEU members which will now have to copy and paste and won’t be any better than the ones we had before which will cost time, money, red tape. And you should know that 96% of laws are made by sovereign parliaments. But the economic argument has always been the weak leave one, it was about dislike of foreigners and the nostalgia for the past. We will decline economically with this on top of Covid, so go forget the “prosper mightily” twaddle, which can be added to the list of lies Johnson has made a career of .

Well, with some of the detail on the agreement now coming out it would seem that the fishing industry has been totally sold down the river for the next five years. European trawlers then maintain all but a third of their catch even after that period.

That will not go down well with the rabid Brexiteirs in the Tory party and will probably see Johnson out of office in the New Year.

With Starmer whipping the Labour Party to support it even wider divisions will open up there also.

Anyway, a merry Christmas to all especially those that enjoy the News & Politics threads on GN.

I just saw some bullshit on Twitter about how being out of Erasmus meant students could now do exchanges with all of the world and universities could become truly international. I can only assume the person tweeting has never set foot in a university anywhere in the world of they think we weren’t free to do that already.

We do have two individual fishing agreements, one with Norway the other with Greenland. Neither of these could have been brokered within the EU. No, it's not perfect for our fishermen, but considerably better than they had under the CFP with more hope for the future, whereas before they had none.

Well at least they can sell their catch to the EU which they wouldn’t with no deal.

It’s no use griping on. The country voted leave 41/2 years ago and we have finally left. All of the moaning, wailing, gnashing of teeth and vitriolic remarks will make no difference. It is what it is and personally I am glad that deal, no deal dithering is finally over.

As I haven't read the reported 2,000 pages setting out the deal I don't feel able to comment about it, but isn't it true that those who wished to remain would not be happy with any negotiated deal and those who voted leave will just be happy a deal has been done?

I totally agree 25Avalon we voted to leave in the referendum and in three subsequent elections. Than goodness it's finally over and we can now build a new relationship with the EU with the freedom to to forge new relationships elsewhere as we see fit.

I would have been happy with a negotiated deal that made the country better off than it was before. But I very much doubt that that is what we’ve got.

It’s certainly not over. This is just the start. No deal at all for the services industry (80% of GDP) for starters.

I have no idea why leavers just expect us all to shut up now. The Tory right kept on about Europe for decades. With indyref2 and consequences for Northern Ireland there’s no chance of skipping off into the sunlit uplands just yet.

We can enjoy the hit on jobs, pension funds, workers rights in the near future. Some of the other losses will take longer to appreciate.

I suspect we’ll eventually end up in the EEA.

I just hope the government treat the EU workers that have helped so much during the pandemic will be rewarded in some way. Haven’t the French offered theirs French citizenship and a lump sum?

Merry Christmas to all fellow politics threaders.

MayBee70

I would have been happy with a negotiated deal that made the country better off than it was before. But I very much doubt that that is what we’ve got.

Exactly. Sour grapes hey- let's wait and see what happens when some realise the realities of this Deal. Of course, this terrible thin deal is much better than a catastrophic No Deal - I'll grant you that.

I have not been able to very the facts below, but Jason Hunter is a very experienced International Negotiator, and this is his assessment

''Airlines: UK can no longer participate in the liberalised aviation market. UK can no longer operate passenger and/or cargo flights between EU destinations based on a UK issued license. UK can no longer operate passenger flights onwards to or from the EU (eg. London-Amsterdam-Bangkok). UK no longer participates in or contributes to European Aviation Safety Agency EASA.

Road Transport: UK no longer participates in EU single market for transport services. UK operators lose right to conduct unlimited cross trade in the EU and up to three cabotage operations within the territory of a single member state.

Fish. UK fisheries products face new customs and SPS checks on entry to the EU.

Security: uK no longer participates in shaping the rules for security, police and judiciary cooperation (Europe, Eurojust etc). UK no longer benefits from.privileged access to police and judicial authorities. UK no longer has access to EU sensitive databases and networks such as the Schengen Information System.

Other programmes: UK no longer benefits from EU funding programmes like NextGenerationEU, regional development and cohesion funding, agriculture and rural development funding.

Mobility: UK nationals no longer have freedom of movement within the EU losing the right to freedom to work, live, start a business or study in the EU. Additionally border checks now required. UK nationals will have to pay extra charges for travel to the EU.

Pet passports no longer valid.

Energy: the UK no longer participates in the Single Energy Market. UK loses access to EU emissions trading scheme. UK is no longer a member of the European atomic energy community and loses its rihht to trade nuclear material and technology with Euratom.

Services: UK no longer benefits from country-of-origin approach or passorting concepts. No more automatic recognition of qualifications for doctors, nurses, architects, vets, engineers, pharmacista etc. UK.no longer free to provide audio/visual services into the EU markets with a UK licence.

Trade: will do a longer post on that but its pretty awful too.''

BTW, apart that the honesty and reliability of the UK was massively put to the test, in a way that will be very hard to redeem in future... can anyone tell me what the real differences are with Mrs May's Deal (and I agree Jane, it should have been accepted then).

Well there you go, Happy Christmas to one and all whether pessimist or optimist, and we shall now just have to wait and see what the New Year brings, meantime, Enjoy.?????

I'm sure Trade is absolutely dreadful. Well it would be wouldn't it?!