The other title is totally out of sink- this is orchestrated fascism

I only have sympathy for Trump if he can prove voting was rigged which it seems he can’t. I don’t have sympathy for the scenes we saw yesterday. I would like to see more of a water tight system of vote counting so we avoid these situations.

I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders

For an observation of the bleeding obvious this is up there with the best of them!

It has not been going on for 400 years unless you were one of the 13 original states. Other areas as the US expanded were territories which applied to join at much later dates. Pre civil war admission depended on whether they were slave or free.

Are the US happy with the current system?

P.S. I agree that it's an 'odd' system, but the USA is happy with it.

What is so 'odd' about it?

There are 50 states in the US Federation. They all make their own rules on their voting systems and they run a number of different systems between them. This is because each state enjoys a considerable amount of what we call 'sovereignty'. It's like when, in happier days, we used to vote for MEPs. Each member state had its own voting system. It's been going on for along, long time. Nearly 400 years, no less. So which 'system' are you two querying?

I don't think any US President (or losing presidential candidate) has ever quarrelled with it or questioned the result. Nor have they spent the months running up to the election telling their followers that there is going to to be unimaginable amounts of cheating going on to deprive him of a second term...

I'm at a loss to understand why you are querying it now, unless you have some sympathy for Trump and his case...
Or do you always suspect some sort of cheating in US Presidential elections?

25Avalon

Not unless it was shown to be rigged which it hasn’t been. I’d just like to have a system there was no room for Trump to claim it was.

Yes, I agree

It is an odd system

I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders

God Bless Her Majesty

Not unless it was shown to be rigged which it hasn’t been. I’d just like to have a system there was no room for Trump to claim it was.

25Avalon

Really? Voting systems are very important and what ever system you have it is important that it is held in a fair manner, whatever party you support. That means it has to be regulated to be as fair as possible. Then there can be no argument.

What are you objecting to, then? The relevant authorities in the US are satisfied that the vote was fairly and legally carried out.

You weren't seriously suggesting a re-run, were you?

It seems that Twitter have released Trump's account.

Well, at least he has clarified what everyone expected:

"To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th,"

But it was too much to hope that he would then shut up:

"The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future,"
"They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!"

Taken from CNN
edition.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/donald-trump-next-steps/index.html

And as CNN point out, "He made no mention of a Capitol Police officer who died overnight from injuries sustained while engaging rioters."

I think what biba is saying is that individuals sometimes have real difficulty in recognising the danger in leaders. They continue believing the opposite even when the truth or evidence is there before their eyes. Indeed some of course will believe in a facist leader because they are facist themselves.

I’m surprised you didn’t understand that

Tea with Mussolini - was that about 90 years ago?

biba70

What part of the mention of the film caused befuddlement?

All of it.

Well yes the film thing totally befuddled me. Talking of judi dench.....

Lucca It was biba who mentioned Tea with Mussolini which was on tv last night, with Judi Dench and it went on from here.

I thought we could have carried on with the film allegories, so I mentioned An Ocean Between Us

Perhaps another thread, another time

Really? Voting systems are very important and what ever system you have it is important that it is held in a fair manner, whatever party you support. That means it has to be regulated to be as fair as possible. Then there can be no argument.

25Avalon

MaisieD I did NOT say the voting was rigged. I said the only legitimate way was for him to PROVE it was rigged.

I don’t read Facebook. It was just an observation that I would have thought a technological rich country like the USA could have a better way of counting its votes so that there is no or little scope for argument, in any election, whoever wins.

In which case I think you're being naive. Methods of vote counting vary from state to state. They are all legally regulated. All the state returning officers (or what ever they're called) have said that the law has been scrupulously observed. I could go with a few fraudulent votes from state to state but that there should be 7million is completely ludicrous.

Trump and the Republicans did their best to disenfranchise voters they thought would vote Democrat, by making it just more difficult to vote in Democrat leaning states, but it didn't work.

And I have to say that our UK method of casting and counting votes is equally open to fraud...There will always be people who try to cheat. Fortunately they are a very tiny percentage of any population.

MaisieD I did NOT say the voting was rigged. I said the only legitimate way was for him to PROVE it was rigged.

I don’t read Facebook. It was just an observation that I would have thought a technological rich country like the USA could have a better way of counting its votes so that there is no or little scope for argument, in any election, whoever wins.

What part of the mention of the film caused befuddlement?

Callistemon

Ignore my brain fart if you wish, Lucca

Well yes the film thing totally befuddled me. Talking of judi dench.....
Nothing like a dame on bbc again last night, fabulous

25Avalon

MaisieD if he wants to be President he cannot do it without his party backing. This he emphatically no longer has. The US constitution is against him. Maybe you are thinking he is still leader and commander supreme of the US military and will be using them to force his stay as President?

The only legitimate way is to prove the voting was rigged and have another election. As I have said before the method of counting votes in the US seems highly questionable and one would have thought there should be a more watertight means then there could be no disputing.

You've been reading too much facebook, 25Avalon

There was absolutely no evidence of wholesale vote rigging. All attempts to take it to law, in a number of states, were laughed out of court because there wasn't any evidence.

I hope you won't now tell me that the judges were corrupt enemies of the people...

Strangely, he's not contesting the result in states that declared for him. Surely, if the US method of vote counting is so dodgy there must have been major errors in some of those states too? Perhaps Biden won them after all...

My mother was studying in Munich in 1932- it took her a while to realise what was going on and return home. Same for the British Ladies in Florence in the 'Tea with Mussolini' film last night.

What we are seeing, in the USA and other parts of the world, is the rise of fascism, all over again. Hiding under 'nationalisistic pride and isolationism'. My mother and the Florence Ladies didn't have history to tell them- we do. We know.

PippaZ

Lucca, it's in the comment above mine.

Thanks

Trump's team made 62 attempts to prove in the courts that there had been voting irregularities and 61 times they were thrown out, often by Republican judges and Trump nominees.

One oft-repeated claim was that dead people had voted and they did find a man who used his own vote, then voted for his dead mother and again for his dead mother-in-law. All three votes were for Trump!

How much more proof do these conspiracy theorists need?

I wonder if they (the Trump family) will start a new party?

Wasn't the reason for the burning of the Reichstag thought to be because Hitler could not get command of it?

Out of Washington police were calling in to Washington DC but seem to have been stood down quite quickly. Virginia declared a State of Emergency when DC extended theirs to 15 days. Things were obviously being done but not actually at the Capitol.

MaisieD if he wants to be President he cannot do it without his party backing. This he emphatically no longer has. The US constitution is against him. Maybe you are thinking he is still leader and commander supreme of the US military and will be using them to force his stay as President?

The only legitimate way is to prove the voting was rigged and have another election. As I have said before the method of counting votes in the US seems highly questionable and one would have thought there should be a more watertight means then there could be no disputing.