The E.U. And AstraZeneca row.

Smileless2012

It's not the same thing biba. Taking a different route to ensure a sufficient supply of vaccines isn't the same as trying to block pre ordered and pre paid for vaccines, to compensate for a failure to be as pro active as you should have been.

Yes biba "we have to work with Europe, and they with us" and the EU haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over their attempt to deprive the UK of vaccines already ordered and paid for, as well as redacting parts of the contract they had with their supplier so they would appear to be in the right, when they knew they weren't.

the story can be looked at from many different angles. Did you watch the link I put above, by the scientist Mike Galsworthy? Probably not.

But yes, even if the EU did not exactly cover themselves with glory - Schadenfreude and crowing victory is not going to take us forwards- not on this matter, and certainly not on others- where we NEED cooperation with the EU, be it on security sharing, and vital imports and exports... on all essential goods and services, never mind 'just' vaccines.

But it’s got nothing to do with the unwieldy process of the the EU that has caused their problem with the vaccines.

Just trying to deflect, eh?

biba70

Someone elsewhere just asked this question

''Interesting the UK Govt , namely Johnson , has been incredibly quiet over the vaccine issue and not been drawn into an argument . Normally he'd been shouting the benefits of his policies to all and sundry , but interestingly he is silent . Why ?''

interesting, I think. Why?

For once why does he need to?? They are making a sufficient hash of this themselves.
Can you even credit them shooting themselves in the foot by invoking Article 16? I'll bet the Taoiseach was apoplectic!

I choked on my supper at that! Shortly thereafter the decision was revoked thank God. Honestly you count make it up!

Early yesterday, it was frightening to witness the panic stricken looks on the EU Commissioners faces as theyweretrying to sort out the cock ups and given the riots on the streets of some European cities no wonder.

Hopefully sense will reign and the vaccines can be shared equably for the benefit of all, us and our neighbours.

Not like the spiteful actions on exports reported at the EU entry points but then we need to rise above that.

"Honestly you couldn't make it up"

I agree Nemesia we are where we are, someone will drag Dominic Cummings in next!
Yes Biba the figure is appalling, but this thread is specifically about events of the last few days regarding tussles over the AstraZenica vaccine.

The EU did also prepay for the vaccine - 300 million. There was insufficient money to build the facility needed. AZ have been unable to keep their side of the contract - they are the cause of the problem promising two customers - U.K. and EU - that the supplies each require will not be disrupted.
Macron has said that they prefer not to give the Pfizer (I think) vaccine to the older population simply because there is insufficient data on how good it is for that group - when there is more data they will review the situation.
There is now evidence that a drug developed in 1985 - ivermectin - will kill the virus within 48 hours - maybe this should also be looked at again.

But yes, even if the EU did not exactly cover themselves with glory - Schadenfreude and crowing victory is not going to take us forwards- not on this matter

I could not agree more and that would be my answer to this question which you, yourself posed

' Interesting the UK Govt , namely Johnson , has been incredibly quiet over the vaccine issue and not been drawn into an argument . Normally he'd been shouting the benefits of his policies to all and sundry , but interestingly he is silent . Why ?''

the story can be looked at from many different angles
Yes, as can any story

Schadenfreude and crowing victory is not going to take us forwards- not on this matter, and certainly not on others
It certainly is not, and as cupafull says "Honestly you couldn't make it up"

The irony hasn't escaped me!

Not the Pfizer vaccine I think Welshwife
Emmanuel Macron is reported as having been accused of making “nonsense” and “untrue” claims about the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab that risked undermining public confidence in the UK’s vaccine programme.
Senior MPs and scientists have accused the French president of failing to understand the science after he claimed that the vaccine “doesn’t work as expected” and appeared to be “quasi-ineffective” in over-65s.

Oh no, don't tell me Emmanuel is on GN spreading fake news?

No Callistemon, it was in a press briefing in Paris on Friday afternoon, that the French president said the jab “doesn't work the way we were expecting it to”.
Presumably in French.

Welshwife your source please for the evidence in Invermectin?
Which does not state ‘ it will kill the virus within 48 hours’ I suggest you read this%:

Welshwife the EU prevaricated and held out for a bargain in the AZ case, as they were not prepared to pay the full price.
They were also way behind us with their order, and did not pay the millions that the UK did to help the vaccine get under way.It was a gamble for us, as the vaccine may not have worked, but thankfully it did.
The EU commission have been out of line with their strong arm tactics and are now regretting it.

Sorry, posted before rephrasing.

It wasn't the European vaccine shortage per se that created the panic inside the EU, it was the realisation that of all countries, it was the UK that was powering ahead in protecting their people by eschewing the bureaucracy of the EU and adopting a nimble quick footed approach.
?

I admit that I have not checked the informationbecause I had the information from a reliable source

I was not sure which vaccine it was they will not initially use in France but knew it was an early one which did not have many over 65s in the trials - it is a precautionary measure - other age groups will have it.

"Our good friends in Europe" is ok.

As long as they never say "Our good friends the EU” - that would be a downright lie.

I for one would find it very interesting to see the reaction within Europe. After all, we can smile and walk away (thanks Boris) but they can't.

Friends and partners. Errr, I don't think so, and I wish Boris would stop referring to the EU as such!

perhaps, in this case - but there are so many others, like security sharing, and all exports and imports, and so so much more. Intelligent cooperation if the only way forwards- or we will all be losers.

Crowing and chest beating, swords and syringe rattling, is a recipe for disaster.

Being happy and proud that ones country has done something well is not crowing, chest beating, sabre rattling unless it’s the UK and particularly England. National pride is allowed everywhere else in the world.
Our country has done something well, acknowledge that at least.

biba, one minute you’re agreeing with “someone” that the UK government has been incredibly quiet about the issue, the next you seem to be accusing it of sabre rattling, crowing and chest beating. Which is it to be, as the two seem to be mutually exclusive?

Crowing and chest beating, swords and syringe rattling, is a recipe for disaster.

Yes, perhaps the EU should give it a rest, particularly Macron, whose popularity is going down and down in France at 29% now, apparently.
Just 29% of respondents said they were satisfied with his leadership, according data from research group Ifop, published in the Journal du Dimanche newspaper. The Ifop poll showed a fall from 34% support last month and 39% two months ago.

I wouldn’t be so pleased about Macrons unpopularity when the alternative is lePenn.

I don't think those figures are right Callistemon. According to the ones I have seen Macron's popularity was at 40% last week and has certainly been pretty high for an incumbent president through 2020. I am a bit suspicious of polls by Sunday papers.
You have to understand that none of this UK/EU vaccine argument is a big story in France, I have barely seen it reported. The big Covid news stories are the possibility of lockdown (not happening at the moment) and the spread of the English (sic) variant.
As for Macron / Le Pen - as one of my students said to me, "we will moan and moan about him and then we will vote for him again because we don't want le Pen".