The E.U. And AstraZeneca row.

In which case they alone would be sufficient for the whole country.

Numbers are getting to look ridiculous now.

It’s like you see monkeys grabbing all the food or toys etc and trying to fend off the rest of its family whilst not remotely being able to eat it or play with it all.

The numbers are to be expected as the orders were placed before efficacy could be known so sensible government covers all bases.
It has already been acknowledged that our surplus will be used in less privileged countries.

LauraNorder

What would you have us do Whitewave? It is logistically impossible to supply enough vaccine and to get it in to all arms worldwide at the same time.
Western governments will protect their own for largely political reasons but will also endeavour, at the same time, to protect their own citizens by making every effort to protect others throughout the world, as far as possible.
This may be simplistic but is nevertheless true.
I understand that the whole process needs to be speedy if we are to avoid more deadly variants evolving but I also understand that the logistics involved are nigh on impossible
There is also a case for keeping our own society strong both in health and economy so that we continue to be in a position to help those less fortunate or able elsewhere.

I would have us follow the science/biology not the politics, or greed.

The logistics are not impossible if the will is there.

The whole point is that unless we tackle this virus as a global phenomena the U.K. will never be safe or strong.

tickingbird

Then continue pulling the government to pieces over the rising deaths? Boris has already stated that some of the vaccine we have will be going to Africa. Macron stopped a shipment of PPE destined for us last year. Why should the people of the UK go without for the sake of Europe? The amount of flak this government have taken since this awful situation began is immense. Some of it justified but not all by a long way. When they get something right, they are still in the wrong. I find it depressing how some appear to hate their own country so much.

Tickingbird, It’s not the country they hate, it’s the Conservative party. Surely you must see this.

Indeed- not the country, at all. Au contraire- it is seeing what this Governement is doing to a country we so love.

Vaccine grabbing and rattling is so so dangerous, and not 'just' with the EU.

Whitewave the will is certainly there. However we have only managed to vaccinate 8 million people in a month in the UK. Will alone hasn’t made it possible to vaccinate everybody.

Back from a long walk to blow the cobwebs away!

I could understand this if we, the UK, were stockpiling vaccines in a cupboard! We aren’t, we are ADMINISTERING them as quickly as possible. We have supply difficulties ourselves. Nicola Sturgeon was only saying so last week.

There would seem little point taking supplies off us when (a) our negotiated contract with the manufacturers is valid and paid for up front and (b) our UK death figures are so very high. Yes, everyone possible needs to be vaccinated, world wide. But to take off us to redistribute to the EU does not make any sense as long as we are jabbing ferociously and not just sat looking at it!

Not like monkeys at all with too much food or toys. We need every jab we can get. Look at the longer wait between jabs to try to mitigate demand.

LauraNorder

The numbers are to be expected as the orders were placed before efficacy could be known so sensible government covers all bases.
It has already been acknowledged that our surplus will be used in less privileged countries.

Yes, as they always do, Britain will help other, less privileged, countries.

I think you are misunderstanding the references to the UN.

Whitewavemark2

In which case they alone would be sufficient for the whole country.

Numbers are getting to look ridiculous now.

It’s like you see monkeys grabbing all the food or toys etc and trying to fend off the rest of its family whilst not remotely being able to eat it or play with it all.

And why do we have so much?. It’s not because we failed to act quickly enough, it’s because our government had the foresight and acted quickly. Would you prefer that we didn’t have enough to go round. Of course we will be generous with our surplus but isn’t it best to wait till everyone is vaccinated.

I had my jab yesterday and my doctor told me that she was very happy to be giving me the AZ but she wasn’t happy about the .... coming out of Germany and France.

Not you, LauraNorder, sorry, I should have made that clear.

Those who believe that the UN should be called upon to take charge of the vaccination programme worldwide.

To be fair I felt the same way when Blair and Co were in government. I, to this day, abhor Tony Blair and, yes I did vote him in originally. I’ve always voted Labour until I saw through Mr Blair.

biba70

Indeed- not the country, at all. Au contraire- it is seeing what this Governement is doing to a country we so love.

They were elected so there's not much anyone can do about that. But at the next GE you will get the chance to vote them out.

Something EU citizens can't do with the EU Commission.

LauraNorder

I’m pretty sure that politicians are well aware that ‘no one is secure until we are all secure’.
Our government has been elected to look after our interests and whilst ensuring that we are all vaccinated they will also be ensuring that the poorest countries will too. Whether for altruistic reasons or purely selfish motives it will happen worldwide.
Just a we would all ensure our own children are fed before we fed others.

Exactly, good post.
It seems to me that those who can’t bear to criticise the EU commission over their actions are trying to distract from it by their use of the ‘let’s vaccinate the whole world’ scenario.
Yes, good idea and it will be done eventually when countries like our own have vaccinated their own citizens first.Make no mistake all countries will do this.
The EU have withdrawn the threats about NI after London and Belfast and Dublin phoned to say what they thought of the idea! The damage is now done to the EU though, whatever they do next.

The EU is turning into a Hegemony and seems to be out of control and starting to look like the old Soviet Union. Controlled by career politicians who were failures in their own Countries.

They no longer have to answer to an electorate and can do as they like knowing that they are not subject to proper scrutiny.

The EU is turning into a Hegemony

It looks that way after their actions over the past week but I hope not as that doesn’t bode well for us.

But if they’re not subject to public scrutiny how come they’ve backtracked on this? I’ve also just read that the U.K. put restrictions on exporting various drugs last year. I’m still not defending the EU though: I just need to know more about recent events.

Hopefully this will be a turning point in US attitudes towards Britain and Europe. Brexit is not the enemy; a post-Brexit Britain could be an engine of innovation, exactly the kind of “can-do” country the US wants to work with. The EU, by contrast, now appears considerably less trustworthy.

Look on, America, and understand that this is why we voted to leave, not just because of who we wanted to be but because we always knew what Brussels was really about.

Opinions were divided over who had the stronger legal case but eyebrows were raised that Ursula vdL had said there were no 'best endeavour' clauses in the contract.

The published deal - accidentally released unredacted - had those clauses!

She either told an intentional lie to 447 million people or she didn't know what was in her own contract," Germany’s Bild Zeitung said yesterday.

Ursula vdL ought to be toast.

14:24biba70

Indeed- not the country, at all. Au contraire- it is seeing what this Governement is doing to a country we so love.

Urmmm what exactly are Boris and the Government doing ? protecting UK citizens by having the foresight to procure enough vaccines to fight coronavirus.

lemongrove

LauraNorder

I’m pretty sure that politicians are well aware that ‘no one is secure until we are all secure’.
Our government has been elected to look after our interests and whilst ensuring that we are all vaccinated they will also be ensuring that the poorest countries will too. Whether for altruistic reasons or purely selfish motives it will happen worldwide.
Just a we would all ensure our own children are fed before we fed others.

Exactly, good post.
It seems to me that those who can’t bear to criticise the EU commission over their actions are trying to distract from it by their use of the ‘let’s vaccinate the whole world’ scenario.
Yes, good idea and it will be done eventually when countries like our own have vaccinated their own citizens first.Make no mistake all countries will do this.
The EU have withdrawn the threats about NI after London and Belfast and Dublin phoned to say what they thought of the idea! The damage is now done to the EU though, whatever they do next.

Our government has been elected to look after our interests

But how is it best to do that? The WHO are suggesting we should vaccinate our own most vulnerable and then work towards ensuring other countries most vulnerable are vaccinated. This would ensure the health services in countries are able to work and that they are not overcome by increasing mortality. Countries getting out of control will lead to a spread of their population into other countries including our own. It seems it will also allow the virus to continue adapting and who knows what the next mutation will mean. We would continue to go down our own vaccination tiers ensuring that, at the same time other countries could do the same.

If this is the best way to save lives in our country and re-establish the economy why would we not consider it? Unless, of course, we are sure we know better than those whose job it is to understand these things.

All countries may indeed put themselves first for vaccines but it does not necessarily mean that this is bound to be the best for their citizens. Some people may, of course, only use a discussion to deflect from the criticism of those they support. We see this rather too often in our Media and even on here but opening your mind to a different solution to the one immediately on offer and discussing it does not seem to come into that box as far as I can see.

They also bought millions of pounds worth of hydroxychloroquine which has been found to be ineffective. Ditto PPE that didn’t work. A test and trace system that was rubbish. For once the government struck lucky with the vaccines they ordered. And we won’t have the Moderna one for ages. Just one good outcome out of a series of bad ones doesn’t suddenly make everything right.

Urmstongran

Opinions were divided over who had the stronger legal case but eyebrows were raised that Ursula vdL had said there were no 'best endeavour' clauses in the contract.

The published deal - accidentally released unredacted - had those clauses!

She either told an intentional lie to 447 million people or she didn't know what was in her own contract," Germany’s Bild Zeitung said yesterday.

Ursula vdL ought to be toast.

That is very interesting (as they used to say on Rowan and Martin’s Laugh In)
This has been badly mishandled from the outset, from Germany claiming the AZ vaccine is no use to over 65’s, to Macron repeating the same baseless accusation which has now resulted in some U.K. over-65’s rejecting the AZ vaccine , to the whole sabre rattling by Ursula vdL threatening NI and consequently U.K. supplies by implication, all one suspects to deflect the documented internal criticism of the tardiness of the EU’s vaccine ordering strategy and the slowness of the roll out in EU countries.

Just out of interest, if the UN (or someone else) were to distribute the available vaccine worldwide, what criteria would you have whitewavemark ?

Population
Percentage of vunerable people
Ethnicity
Age
Extent of current infection
Ability to administer
Commitment to take up

Any ideas?

My other question is, if the available vaccine was spread over the world, obviously a small percentage in each country would be vaccinated and it would take many months, even years. Would this actually encourage more mutation?

What does any of that have to do with the AZ row Maybe ?