Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

I have been reading but not posting on this thread as Scottish Politics would/could never be my Mastermind subject, but your last sentence Paddyanne made me laugh out loud!

You will be claiming Nelson Mandela, The Beatles and Elvis Presley next (yes I do know that Elvis did set foot on Scots soil) were true Scots.

Casdon

Paddyanne your last sentence was so outrageous that it made me laugh out loud, people won’t take anything you say seriously if you make wild statements like that.

Let's start a list (warning this could go on for some time)

1. Bank of England
2.

Posted for a joke, before anyone gets annoyed....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzMBvXvilSY

Elvis Presley's ancestors were from Aberdeenshire. The Beatles played their first gig with electric guitars in Peterhead. Still working on Nelson Mandela .....

Alegrias1 ?

Paddyanne You ask me the question- what exactly is it about English rule that you think is better than Independence?
The thing is I believe I voted for an MP in a British parliament so therefore the parliament covers some of our needs and in addition I voted for an MSP so that covers devolved matters. I am pro EU but I don't think we have any chance at all of rejoining in the event of gaining independence and I feel being told this could happen is a bit like the Brexit bus story all over again. I agree there have been many famous Scots but there have also been talented people from all four nations and I certainly don't think people generally think of the Scottish people in the manner you mention. We have to look at the present and not to the past. I outlined previously why I feel we have a good life here in Scotland one which many south of the border would desire. I feel Brexit has caused a lot of pain, much of which is still surfacing. Why would I wish this similar situation on our nation. Let's be kind to our neighbours. Let's get through the pandemic and draw a breath. Then maybe the debate could start again.

Alegrias1

Posted for a joke, before anyone gets annoyed....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzMBvXvilSY

Elvis Presley's ancestors were from Aberdeenshire. The Beatles played their first gig with electric guitars in Peterhead. Still working on Nelson Mandela .....

Donald Trump's ancestors were Scottish!

Aaaarrrghh!

I know, he kept talking about it when he was here. No country is perfect. Although some come close

Here’s one list of the best British inventions:
home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/tech-features/8-british-inventions-that-changed-the-world-11363949058351
Of course there are some world changing amazing inventions by Scots, but honestly - that was the best laugh for me all day!

1/4 of those people were Scots; proportion of English to Scots population today 12:1. We still punch above our weight

(joke, joke...!)

My comment about Trump was a joke too, I hope that's how everyone read it.

Of course Alegrias1 appreciated your joke!
I’m sure the Scots do punch above their weight, it was just the wild statement that they are responsible for just about every major invention that has come out of the UK that made me laugh - even the most diehard Scot would surely agree that can’t possibly be the case.

The EU has very little control over the sovereign countries it encompasses?! Paddyanne, I can't seriously credit it that you honestly believe that. While I can understand wanting to be independent and going your own way, joining the EUSSR is crazy. What about the treatment of Greece? the total disrepect shown only this week to Eire, the referendums, either ignored or re run to get the correct result, the stranglehold on Switzerland? I would think all Scotland would be looking forward to is years of the EU insisting on reducing that GDP (austerity) using the Euro, insisting on a hard border, paid for by Scotland and generally interfering in every aspect of Scottish life. Pipers and tunes comes to mind.

We're quite good at dealing with pipers and tunes in Scotland.

I feel obliged to come back as I started this thread and have read with interest.
There seem to be good and bad points from all sides and my personal views have swayed to and fro.
Good to see mature discussion and a fair bit of humour although not all of it intended.
I knew very little of Scots/English history and have sadly only ventured north of the border twice, a wedding in Oban when we stayed a week to explore wonderful scenery and a fabulous weekend in Edinburgh where we watched the Military Tattoo. We had intended to repeat the latter awesome experience for their 50th anniversary but sadly covid got in the way.
One day soon hopefully.

From an article in yesterday’s business section of the DT.

An independent Scotland would face an economic blow up to three times bigger than Brexit and could not reverse the damage by rejoining the EU an academic report has revealed.
The hit to trade alone would slash Scottish income per capita by between 6.3pc and 8.7pc. Equivalent to up to £ 2.800 per person, economists at the LSE warned.

The report estimated that trade costs between Scotland and the rest of the UK could soar by up to 30pc as the SNP ramps up the pressure on Westminster for another independence referendum.

That report that the DT article is about is the LSE one, that has been criticised for 'made up' data (see my link posted up thread.) The data was 'made up' because no records had been kept... How can anyone take seriously a report based on guess work?

Scottish engineers/inventors have made hugely important contributions to our lives. Many Scots made their way world wide because of lack of opportunity in Scotland. I think they're a very admirable people.

www.famousinventors.org/10-great-scottish-inventors-and-their-inventions

I have read through a number of posts and like most things in life there is a fair amount of either misinformation or misunderstandings. I am Scottish have lived in England, Wales,Germany and France. I worked in the oil industry and spent a lot of my time in Africa, middle East and Kazakhstan. I don't consider myself insular and I have supported independence since I was 20 and I am almost 68 now. Independence is the only way for Scotland, that way we can be in charge of our own country. No one to criticise or blame if things go wrong only ourselves, make our own decisions, choose the government we actually want and to be good neighbours to England, Wales. It's not about criticising other countries it's the desire to be in charges of our own country, because that's what Scotland is, a country, not a region belonging to someone else, needing permission or having to ask for additional resources. It's quite simple, nothing to do with politicians because none of them last forever. It's what the people of Scotland decide they want, and I truly hope it's independence and then rejoin the EU at some point in the future. I also think the England should have it's own parliament, be independent and make decisions to suit the people of England.

Lollypolly ?

I think that a disproportionate number of Scots have made any impact on the wider world because Scotland had four universities for hundreds of years when England only had two, and there was an egalitarian tradition of education where a farm labourer's son could go to university then venture out into the world and succeed in a way that the sons of the poor in more class ridden English could not.

Of course this has meant that many of the best educated Scots went to England or abroad and made their mark.

Yes, Varian, the "lad o' pairts" who has ability and was prepared to work hard at his education, could always make his way in Scotland, and afterwards abroad.

"had" not "has", though the tradition of education not being confined to those with plenty of money lasted well.

I think that, for hundreds of years. the well educated Scot who went down to England. whether he was an engineer. accountants. architect. doctor or scientist was probably underestimated by his posh English colleagues because he spoke with a different accent and would therefore easily outwit them and overtake them in career progression. The English were handicapoed by their heavy reliance on class identifiers like old school and posh accent.

This may now have changed but I'm not sure how much.

I've worked with well-educated Scots (well, to PhD level if that is considered well-educated) and they were very well respected. But then I don't remember many posh accents amongst our colleagues or old school ties either.

A thought provoking post Lollygran. I’d be very sad if Scotland left the Union but as a Brexiteer, I cannot fault your logic of wanting independence.

In 2014 I would have been very sad if Scotland voted to leave the UK but 6 years later I just feel for God's sake go.