Flying the flag

I've just noticed a typo in my post 14.14.11 - 2018 instead of 1918. Stupid of me.

Dinahmo

Varian Apologies for disagreeing with you (see page 12). I got my info from the H of C Library.

Thank you Dinah

In the 1938 GE the conservatives got 47.8% of the vote but with the help of smaller parties, were able to form a National Government supported by 51.8% of votes, so the 1938 GE was the single occasion where the winning party got more than half the votes.

“In my book this means that the the left of centre parties had very nearly twice the number of votes cast compared to the Tories.”

What massive leap of faith was made by the liberals in 2010 for them to go from left of centre to joining the right wing in coalition Dinahmo? Perhaps they weren’t as left as everyone thought!

Callistemon I think that belief came some time later. I just remember a group of us stayed up to see Portillo's result and how the fizz flowed afterwards! Mind you I quite like him now as a tv presenter.

We all know that Labour got in with 43.2% of the vote (change that to some of us) in 1997. However, the Lib Dems gained 16.8% and the Tories only 30.7%. In my book this means that the the left of centre parties had very nearly twice the number of votes cast compared to the Tories.

There are many who believe that Tony Blair was a Tory, a true successor to Margaret Thatcher.

I got my information from Gransnet

I've voted Labour for most of my adult life apart from an occasional flirtation with the Libs (tactical voting). Despite being extremely pleased to see Tony Blair win, I have always thought that the system was unfair because the majority didn't get what they voted for.

We really do need a change to PR but how we acheive that i have no idea, apart from going on about it on GN and hope to persuade a few more people to agree.

Firecracker 123 Sun 21-Mar-21 10:47:35: I think mostly the people objecting to the Union Flag being displayed when MPs are giving interviews on TV are Remainers, Labour, Lib Dem supporters or SNP supporters who hold a grudge.

MaizieD 12:22 Well, the amusing thing is, Firecracker, that these groups make up the larger part of the UK electorate.
So we win, I think

GrannyGravy 12:28 MaizieD sorry to point it out but you didn’t win which is why the UK has a Conservative majority of 80 and it’s no longer in the EU. (i.e. first mention of general election or any election or referendum at all. Out of nowhere.)

12:32 and 12:34, two posters post about how Labour, Lib Dem and SNP supporters do actually make up the larger part of the UK electorate but that the current electoral system means the Tories have a majority.

12:49: Indignant GG13 tells us she does understand the electoral system.

Thereafter, several posters jump on the bandwagon and accuse me of thinking the referendum was rigged and the Tories didn’t win the last election.

Make up your own minds. Have the triumphant Tories trademarked the phrase "We win"?

Varian Apologies for disagreeing with you (see page 12). I got my info from the H of C Library.

Pantglas2

“Conservative vote in 2019: 43.6%
Votes for Labour, SNP and Lib Dems: 47.6%”

Interesting argument Alegrias. Would you also argue with the 1997 result?

We all know that Labour got in with 43.2% of the vote (change that to some of us) in 1997. However, the Lib Dems gained 16.8% and the Tories only 30.7%. In my book this means that the the left of centre parties had very nearly twice the number of votes cast compared to the Tories.

FYO The only times since 2018 when there was an overall majority for any party -in this case the Tories was in 1931 and 1935 when they gained 60.76% and 53.3% respectively.

So what part of my post is untrue Pippaz ?

GrannyGravy13

Good try, but however you dress it up under the current electoral system The Conservatives are in power with an eighty seat majority...

‘Yes, dear. By evening she’ll believe she really did think and say what she claims. Her type used to be the bane of my existence. She doesn’t lie deliberately. She is simply sure that whatever she wants to believe is true. As a witness, the family cat was more reliable.’

When I read the above it really reminded me of those on GN who forget completely what was put forward as their argument and how they framed it because it no longer suits them, so much so that they are now totally convinced that what they now want to be the truth is the truth.

A Tory MP has suggested people should leave the UK if they do not feel pride in “our flag or Queen”.

Lia Nici, MP for Grimsby, spoke out as Tory politicians have been displaying huge flags in the background during TV interviews.

Robert Jenrick, the local government secretary, provoked laughter on the BBC over the floor-to-ceiling Union flag placed for viewers to see – triggering an angry response from some sections of the public.

Ms Nici, the Grimsby MP, went further, tweeting: “Of course if people are not proud to be British, or of our flag or Queen, they don’t have to live in the UK. Perhaps they should move to another country they prefer.”

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/tory-mp-says-love-the-flag-and-queen-or-move-to-another-country-259313/

Someone should tell this ignorant, arrogant MP that it is possible to love our country and our queen without flying the flag to show how much you love the Tory party.

There have been two coalition governments supported by a majority - the wartime coaltion and the 2010-15 coalition.

There has only been one UK government elected by a majority of votes in the last hundred years (Conservative government elected in 1931).

Every other government has been elected by a minority of voters.

www.statista.com/statistics/717004/general-elections-vote-share-by-party-uk/

Just to clarify, we've had lots of times when the winning party has had less than 50% of the votes, therefore by some people's opinion, not democratic. In 1974, Wilson had a 4 seat majority but actually got fewer votes than the Conservatives and at 37% of the votes, it meant 63% of those who voted, voted for another party. I didn't stop him governing for another four years. I think if I looked I could probably find pictures of every PM regardless of political affiliation standing or sitting in front of a Union Jack. When they are in government, like it or not, they are representing every person in Great Britain.

“Conservative vote in 2019: 43.6%
Votes for Labour, SNP and Lib Dems: 47.6%”

Interesting argument Alegrias. Would you also argue with the 1997 result?

No one is questioning the results, except perhaps those who suggest that the Tory party were supported by the majority of voters.

We all know that they have any eighty seat majority and so can do what they like for the next four years so what we have is dictatorship of a minority.

Democracy means rule by the majority NOT any minority.

That is why the UK is not a democracy.

If all Tory voters in the land had a union jack in their living rooms that would not make the UK any more democratic.

Alegrias1

We know GG13 You're the one who brought it up and feels the need to keep talking about it. That's not what we were talking about. Read the posts again?

I suggest you read MaizieD’s post of 12.22

varian

It does look as if the Tory Party are trying to misuse the union jack in the same way that the SNP misuse the saltire.

These national flags belong to all of us, not to any political party.

There's nothing stopping other parties from displaying the flag, in other countries it's usual for the leader to display the flag, only here do we seem to be ashamed of it.

Oh yes. And they pander to us, 'the British' by shoving a flag behind them on zoom calls and broadcasts. If that is patriotism, we might as well give up now.

I agree with Varian. The UK isn't a democracy anymore. We are run by unelected SPADS, big business and the media, or at least, by those who from those sectors that the corrupt mess we call government is bribed by.

We only have to look at the way public money was thrown in millions, at friends and contacts of the government throughout the course of this pandemic. Worst death toll in the civilised world, near enough, and yet they are STILL throwing money at mates and we the people are powerless to stop it.

Hardly a democracy.

We know GG13 You're the one who brought it up and feels the need to keep talking about it. That's not what we were talking about. Read the posts again?

Varian says "This is not democracy. The UK is a sham democracy where most people's votes don't count."

Sorry I have to disagree with you on this, of course we are a democracy, it's just not one that is based on proportional representation. We all know how the system works and we don't have the degree of gerrymandering that is common in the US or the attempts at voter suppression. IMO it is undemocratic to question the results of a legally run election, we are beginning to sound like Trump's America, God help us!

I'd imagine it's easier to stand corrected if you've been spoken to as an equal with a different opinion and politics. Rather than 'corrected' as if you are being taught something by someone who has assumed authority over you. But hey, who am I to suggest that we all try and have a bit of decency?

Good try, but however you dress it up under the current electoral system The Conservatives are in power with an eighty seat majority...