Flying the flag

Alarmingly so growstuff

Well growstuff it will do admirably in the absence of a nationwide poll on the subject.
Don’t be silly, the UK is certainly not ‘going in the right direction’.

GrannyRose15

^How many more times do you need to be told that the 80 seat majority does not represent the majority of the voters. The Tories had 43.6% of the popular vote. In my book tht is not a majority.^

But it is a win. And you wouldn't be complaining if the vote had gone the other way, would you?

Try reading my post at 14.23.15 (or thereabouts)

I wrote "Despite being extremely pleased to see Tony Blair win, I have always thought that the system was unfair because the majority didn't get what they voted for." Is that a complaint or not?

despite being a supporter of the LP I have been on various occasions unhappy with the way they have assumed that because one voted for them, one voted for the total manifesto. This applies to all parties I think. Although, looking at some of the comments on here I suspect that for some Tory supporters, whatever is in their manifesto, they will agree with, hook, line and sinker.

If we ever did become a ‘fascist regime’ or indeed any kind of regime you can feel superior here on GN.Until then, and we have a Labour government in four years ( as we no doubt will)
Perhaps allow a bit of flag display ( as happens in every other country) without all the anxiety and dismayed gasps that black shirts will soon be worn.

Memories are short lemongrove - I said yesterday that I don’t like flags being used for political purposes by any party.

Yes, I’m in Wales. No, I don’t like the fact that Wales is not even represented on the Union Jack, and no I don’t like it when the Welsh flag is used in political broadcasts.

I don’t have any problem with the Welsh national flag being the people’s flag, which is what it is - there’s a huge difference in having pride in your country and it being rammed down your throat by politicians. I’d have no problem with St George’s flag being used in the same way in England either.

I’d suggest you go back to page 1 and read this thread again, in the cool light of day there are very few posters with anti Union Jack views, but many who don’t want to see it misused as a political talisman.

Dinahmo this Conservative voter has lots of issues with the current Government, the (small) detail of them appearing in front of the Union Flag is not one of them.

GrannyRose15

^How many more times do you need to be told that the 80 seat majority does not represent the majority of the voters. The Tories had 43.6% of the popular vote. In my book tht is not a majority.^

But it is a win. And you wouldn't be complaining if the vote had gone the other way, would you?

You hang on in there GrannyRose. The fact that the coversation was about something else will never matter will it?

What is happening here is the equivalent of entering a game and crying foul everytime a point is lost while trying to swip away the pieces off the board. It's very unpleasant.

It is the cool light of day Casdon but your earlier post just hadn’t been noticed by me, and now we have your view...that no country’s flag should be used when politicians are speaking.Presumably you feel the same about the French flag when Macron speaks and the US flag when Biden speaks.
Or any other country in the world.It’s your view which you are entitled to.
The worry on here( seemingly) is that by having a flag on view when politicians are imparting government advice/ speeches means shortly sliding into fascism or some kind of regime, is absolute madness ( although you are not espousing that particular view.)

“ Lucca at least you have answered to say that you find any flags from England Scotland or Wales ( with politicians) as
‘Daft’. It’s a view.?”

I said the really big flags in the sitting rooms are daft. You’re slightly altering my words !

lemongrove

It is the cool light of day Casdon but your earlier post just hadn’t been noticed by me, and now we have your view...that no country’s flag should be used when politicians are speaking.Presumably you feel the same about the French flag when Macron speaks and the US flag when Biden speaks.
Or any other country in the world.It’s your view which you are entitled to.
The worry on here( seemingly) is that by having a flag on view when politicians are imparting government advice/ speeches means shortly sliding into fascism or some kind of regime, is absolute madness ( although you are not espousing that particular view.)

Lemongrove, the first rule of debate is to keep the information truthful. It is morally wrong to falsify, create, or distort evidence to suit the argument.

Nowhere in Casdon's post does she say "no country’s flag should be used when politicians are speaking". You have completely misrepresented not only what Casdon has said but you have gone on to give a false and misleading account of what other posters, who don't agree with the flag being used as this governement is, have said too.

Ok. I wasnt anti flag but, having read the nonsense on this thread from flag supporters, I know where my heart lies.

Oh Iam, that made me smile - and we need smiles. Thank you.

PippaZ

GrannyRose15

How many more times do you need to be told that the 80 seat majority does not represent the majority of the voters. The Tories had 43.6% of the popular vote. In my book tht is not a majority.

But it is a win. And you wouldn't be complaining if the vote had gone the other way, would you?

You hang on in there GrannyRose. The fact that the coversation was about something else will never matter will it?

What is happening here is the equivalent of entering a game and crying foul everytime a point is lost while trying to swip away the pieces off the board. It's very unpleasant.

You will perhaps be polite enough to concede that it wasn't me that hijacked the subject. It was the person I was quoting - I think it was Dinahmo .

GrannyGravy13

Dinahmo this Conservative voter has lots of issues with the current Government, the (small) detail of them appearing in front of the Union Flag is not one of them.

Quite.

Dinahmo didn't hijack the subject. Somebody (not Dinahmo) misunderstood the conversation, though.

Iam64

Ok. I wasnt anti flag but, having read the nonsense on this thread from flag supporters, I know where my heart lies.

Pity about that Iam64 as I found your earlier post, as I do most of your posts, sensible.

Anyone who thinks that any country within the UK should never display the flag alongside leaders/ Ministers, should also ( by the same principle) dislike any other country in the world doing the same ( having a flag in the office, or next to a podium when a politician is speaking.) To single out the UK for flag displaying would be very peculiar. By the same token,
Anyone who thinks it’s fine to have the Welsh or Scottish flag on display but not an English or Union flag, by politicians in England when speaking from a podium in Downing St or in an office when talking to camera, is also exhibiting peculiar and cherry picking behaviour.What is really being objected to is the present government PM and ministers ( who happen to be Conservatives) displaying the Union flag.
In other words ( to cut a long story short) because they dislike
Conservatives being in power, they object to the flag.
What’s the betting that if Labour were in power, there would be absolutely no objections at all to it.
It’s just another way of Tory bashing innit?!?

Keir Starmer has been using the flag recently. I feel uncomfortable about that, too. As I would be if he was PM.

We've had 14 pages of discussing flags in people's living rooms, with occasional diversions into coronation mugs and who won the general election. But we could have saved ourselves all that time just by asking you, Lemongrove, to tell us all exactly what it is that we think. And no need to read any posts, none of that required of course, because you have this wonderful insight into what's in our minds and it's all always about the Tories, especially if we're not English.

MayBee70

Keir Starmer has been using the flag recently. I feel uncomfortable about that, too. As I would be if he was PM.

I notice he seems to have stopped that, though.

Alegrias1

We've had 14 pages of discussing flags in people's living rooms, with occasional diversions into coronation mugs and who won the general election. But we could have saved ourselves all that time just by asking you, Lemongrove, to tell us all exactly what it is that we think. And no need to read any posts, none of that required of course, because you have this wonderful insight into what's in our minds and it's all always about the Tories, especially if we're not English.

Alegrias ...after your famous assertion that Sturgeon never used the Saltire and were then proved spectacularly wrong by the photos?I think I can ignore your remarks.

lemongrove

Iam64

Ok. I wasnt anti flag but, having read the nonsense on this thread from flag supporters, I know where my heart lies.

Pity about that Iam64 as I found your earlier post, as I do most of your posts, sensible.

Anyone who thinks that any country within the UK should never display the flag alongside leaders/ Ministers, should also ( by the same principle) dislike any other country in the world doing the same ( having a flag in the office, or next to a podium when a politician is speaking.) To single out the UK for flag displaying would be very peculiar. By the same token,
Anyone who thinks it’s fine to have the Welsh or Scottish flag on display but not an English or Union flag, by politicians in England when speaking from a podium in Downing St or in an office when talking to camera, is also exhibiting peculiar and cherry picking behaviour.What is really being objected to is the present government PM and ministers ( who happen to be Conservatives) displaying the Union flag.
In other words ( to cut a long story short) because they dislike
Conservatives being in power, they object to the flag.
What’s the betting that if Labour were in power, there would be absolutely no objections at all to it.
It’s just another way of Tory bashing innit?!?

You are misrepresenting what has been said on here yet again Lemongrove. Where has anyone said "... the UK should never display the flag alongside leaders/ Ministers," it's a corruption of what people have very carefully spelt out when it comes to their personal views on how this government is using the flag.

I have no idea if this falsifying of their account is deliberate or not but it is wrong to present a corrupted version of the views of others in the way you have. That sort of misinformation stops this being a discussion and turns into an attempt at propaganda; it's biased and misleading.

You not only put forward a distorted version of what has been said, you then feel you are in a position to ignore people's explanation and decide on a twisted version of your own with "What is really being objected to is the present government PM and ministers ( who happen to be Conservatives) displaying the Union flag." Again, no one has said there are no appropriate times for it to be displayed by this government or any other. It has been quite clear that it is the way they are now doing it that is being objected to; the wrapping of one party in the countries flag.

Let me say, once again, that I believe it is morally wrong to take others words and to falsify or distort them to suit your argument.

That's not what I said Lemon. Either you know that and you're misrepresenting what I said, or your desire to see anti Tory propaganda in every post that doesn't 100% support your viewpoint is blinding you to the truth.

I remember saying to you ( a year ago)Pip that I won’t be drawn into answering any of your posts.
That still stands btw.

It was just so funny Alegrias you saying that no Saltires were in view followed by two photos of it very much in view.
Possibly all that can be said about flags has been said.Nobody will change their own views on it.Which is fine.

You have been answering them lemongrove but it would be nice if you stuck to factual and truthful reporting of other people's posts. The doesn't seem a lot to ask.