Scottish Election 6 weeks away.

Callistemon

Forsythia

My view is let all four countries have their independence. Let them all go it alone and see if they prosper. However, if they don’t, then on their heads be it. What are the arguments for staying as we are. What do we all gain from it? Very little from my point of view, just constant bitterness and arguments. So, why can’t we all have a referendum on independence? I’d vote for that.

The majority of people in Wales are not asking for independence or even a referendum.

In fact, the Conservatives beat Plaid Cymru into 3rd place.

Why should you vote for Wales's independence when they clearly do not want it?

If they do not want it, then they won’t vote for it will they? But those of us in England might also like a vote on independence from the other three. Something nobody ever considers.

Explain

This is a very silly example but I'm going to use it anyway. When I was young I could have stayed in my mum's house and been happy and comfortable and not taken any chances. But I went into the world and for a while I was hard up but I made my own way and eventually had a nice life. That's what I want for Scotland.

It’s fine to choose poverty for yourself. It’s not fine to choose it for other people.

And why can’t non-domiciled Scots have a vote on such a referendum? They’re still Scottish.

Callistemon

Explain

That wasn't addressed to you, Forsythia, it was to Alegrias.

Alegrias1

It's you.

Could you explain the difference please.

I don't have any say in what Scotland decides, but as I voted remain I think we are all better united.
I do understand that Brexit had an impact.
Would you still have wanted another referendum if the EU vote had gone the other way?

And we're off.

What about this, what about that.....

It's going to be along time before any referendum. I'll save my energy.

(Prediction - see, they're just avoiding the difficult questions )

I was just curious as it seems to be the main topic on the news at the moment!

It's going to be along time before any referendum. I'll save my energy.
What?! Surely not a generation?

I'll answer one of your questions Call. I'd want independence whether or not Brexit had happened.

Callistemon

I was just curious as it seems to be the main topic on the news at the moment!

I wonder why that is? I know I’ve said this before but media manipulation isn’t just about the content of their material but first and foremost deciding what is talked about and thereby what is not talked about.

Urmstongran

I can empathise it’s not ‘about the money’.
It’s a visceral longing.

So be it.

Mind you, that Barnett formula worked out in 1978 is long overdue a revisit after more than 40 years. It will come in handy for England if the split does happen!

I doubt that the split will happen, once voters in Scotland realise that joining the EU is doubtful, and the thought of having the euro and a hard border with England are all real possible problems if they were allowed to join.
When such a large part( 60% I believe) of trade is with the rest of the UK from Scotland, it really doesn’t make sense.
The tourist industry is another thing too, as I think it would make English visitors think twice about holidays there.
However, if they do have a referendum and choose to leave the Union then so be it, I won’t lose any sleep over it.

‘The tourist industry is another thing too, as I think it would make English visitors think twice about holidays there.’

First outright laugh of the morning - thank you lemon.

The tourist industry is big business for Scotland. Visitors come from all over, including England and spend money there, if I was a hotel or B&B owner, or any other owner of a business there that relies on visitors, then yes, I would be worried.
Since you live in Surrey sw then it doesn’t affect you.

lemongrove

The tourist industry is big business for Scotland. Visitors come from all over, including England and spend money there, if I was a hotel or B&B owner, or any other owner of a business there that relies on visitors, then yes, I would be worried.
Since you live in Surrey sw then it doesn’t affect you.

Yes I know tourism is important for Scotland. It was the idea of tourists not visiting because of Independence.???

If it happens ( leaving the Union) then only time will tell if it affects English visitor levels in significant numbers, but I think it may well, from conversations I have had with people.
Already, friends in the West Country who go to Scotland every year with a big group, have said they don’t feel welcome anymore.

And why is where I live relevant. You can’t resist getting personal can you ? I look forward to you mentioning other posters locations when you comment on their posts.

Independence in Scotland could well affect visitor numbers.

Size of the Scottish economy, about £200 billion. Size of the tourism industry, about 11 billion. Spend by visitors from England, about 1 billion.

Anyway sw, I thought you knew, as a person from England you are only allowed to comment on Scotland if you are telling us we're too poor, too wee, too stupid, and you couldn't care less about us. ???

lemongrove

If it happens ( leaving the Union) then only time will tell if it affects English visitor levels in significant numbers, but I think it may well, from conversations I have had with people.
Already, friends in the West Country who go to Scotland every year with a big group, have said they don’t feel welcome anymore.

Oh right - real evidence and there was I thinking it was biased speculation .

I think over the coming months we are going to see wilder and wilder and more desperate fantasies being put forward as to why Independence is A Very Bad Idea . Anyone who instead wants a mature discussion and hear the Unionists position could listen to Brown on this mornings Today programme ( when strangely enough he forget to mention the danger posed to tourism). He was the man who actually saved the Unionists bacon last time round. Meanwhile, let’s just remember Johnson didn’t have the guts to go to Scotland during this election. Frit frit frit.

The Scottish tourist industry has suffered badly during the last year with Covid, imagine if there was constant wrangling (which there will be) about the ‘next’ referendum for independence, very off putting for visitors.
I agree this aspect can’t be the be all and end all for thinking (if you are a undecided voter) about independence, but if you are a business owner or work in the tourist industry in any capacity, it could sway you.
A hard border would be the other thing to sway you.

Brown speaks sensibly about the Union and why we should stay together, but do people still listen to him?

lemongrove

The Scottish tourist industry has suffered badly during the last year with Covid, imagine if there was constant wrangling (which there will be) about the ‘next’ referendum for independence, very off putting for visitors.
I agree this aspect can’t be the be all and end all for thinking (if you are a undecided voter) about independence, but if you are a business owner or work in the tourist industry in any capacity, it could sway you.
A hard border would be the other thing to sway you.

DH works in the tourist industry, is a small business owner. Still supports independence.

That's my sample of one. Other opinions may vary.

lemongrove

Brown speaks sensibly about the Union and why we should stay together, but do people still listen to him?

I agreed with the part I heard this morning Lemongrove, something about the Tory government's brand of Unionism not working in Scotland any more, if it ever did. I will listen to the whole thing later.

Personally, I see him as yesterday's man - a former PM who is not even a back bencher any more, in a party that isn't in power.

Alegrias1

I'll answer one of your questions Call. I'd want independence whether or not Brexit had happened.

Ok, fair enough, thanks.

I don't think it is just me, though, who remains puzzled about some aspects of this.