Scottish Election 6 weeks away.

Elegran

It took me too long to type that, so the discussion has moved on a bit, but I concur with Alegrias that the Scots are not some alien species who want something strange. They are a mixture of individuals just as are all nations, and don't deserve to be patronised and vilified for wanting to plan their future - whether it is within the Uk or outside it.

Hear, hear Elegran ?

suziewoozie

So why is Johnson so frit ?

Possibly because he doesn’t want the Union to break up under his ‘watch’. Understandable. It’s a biggie to set down in the history books.
?

And Ireland and possibly Wales??

There now seems to be a good chance that the erstwhile United Kingdom, will become little England with hard borders between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Is this what the so-called "conservative and unionist party" wanted when they campaigned for Brexit?

varian

There now seems to be a good chance that the erstwhile United Kingdom, will become little England with hard borders between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Is this what the so-called "conservative and unionist party" wanted when they campaigned for Brexit?

It never crossed their minds because they are fundamentally little Englanders.

Britain is such a small island it would be plain daft to split it up. Scotland has proportionately just as much representation at Westminster as any other part of the UK and receives a better deal financially. I can quite understand that other parts of the country resent that.

Norway, Finland, and of course Ireland are all a similar size to Scotland Aveline, and manage well as independent countries.

Aveline I know we will never agree but not everything is about money. We may get money from the financial settlement of the Union but we pay in as well. I am going to guess that most independence supporters will want self determination, not money. I do. We used to have a poster who could quote chapter and verse about the balance between them but she doesn't post any more.

This is a very silly example but I'm going to use it anyway. When I was young I could have stayed in my mum's house and been happy and comfortable and not taken any chances. But I went into the world and for a while I was hard up but I made my own way and eventually had a nice life. That's what I want for Scotland.

I'm being poetic this evening

Have to agree Alegrias.
I voted Brexit.

I wanted autonomy from the corrupt EU.
❤️ Europe but not the unelected bureaucrats who refused for YEARS to have their gravy train accounts audited.

In the end for me, it was sod it, I’d rather the UK was on its own.

I can understand Scotland’s POV. It hurts if they choose to go (just as it must have hurt Brussels) but independence is, I think, an emotional and heart felt need. It calls to the soul.

My view is let all four countries have their independence. Let them all go it alone and see if they prosper. However, if they don’t, then on their heads be it. What are the arguments for staying as we are. What do we all gain from it? Very little from my point of view, just constant bitterness and arguments. So, why can’t we all have a referendum on independence? I’d vote for that.

I think the difference is Urmstongran that I don't think the UK is particularly corrupt, or out to get us, or particularly the "big bad wolf", if I can say that. Its just going in a different direction, especially England, I'm afraid, and although we do have representation at Westminster we are always going to be the minor partner in this relationship, and that's not how its meant to be.

Its not being emotional, its about being living our own way, making our own wealth and being seen on the world stage as a European country, a position which I'm sorry to say the UK no longer has.

I'm not deluded about the economic effects either, it won't be the same after we've left. That's the point

Yes independence is all about hopes and dreams but they don't pay bills or pensions. Hard economics come into it. I noticed that Nicola had no answers to that when questioned.
My neighbour voted SNP and I asked her why after I pointed out their multiplicity of failings over the past 14 years. She replied, 'Because Mary Queen of Scots would have wanted me to.'! I reminded her that Mary's own son inherited the English throne. She replied, 'Oh yes. I forgot. Och.'
Another daft reason to vote SNP.

I have many reasons to support independence, none of them daft, and if voting SNP get us there, that's what I'll be doing. But DH and I were discussing this today and we reckon there's a good 1/3 of people who are Unionist to the core, either because they just think the Union is the answer to everything, (valid belief) or because they think we'll never prosper on our own (not a valid belief). So they are not the ones we'll have to convince, its the 1/6 of people who would take us from 45% to 60% (my maths may not be spot on )

Mary Queen of Scots would have been for Union, I reckon. She wanted the crowns of Scotland and England.

I quite understand Alegrias. Thank you for explaining. I get it now. Took me a while but hey ho!

My Brexit reasons were what was important to me.
(Posters still ask me - or assume they know my views). ?
Just as your reasons are what are important to you.

Good luck.

And her son, Alegrias1, when named as Elizbeth 1's successor, came straight to London and never went back.

Yes, I know. . Strange lad. Bit hung up about witches.....

Took all his followers with him and gave them posts at court. Apparently that's why Scots got a reputation for being money grabbing - they got the jobs over the English lords. I don't know if that's really true though, it could be apocryphal.

Thanks Ug

I am all for Scottish independence and most of us in the south of England are, we will get our industries back that were moved to Scotland for political reasons, shipbuilding, submarine base, for a start and many more will all come back to England. The money we save on the Barnet formula, which was supposed to be a temporary measure when introduced can be used to invest in England. No way can the Scots use sterling either as a currency or to prop up their currency, the ever increasing Scots national debt should not be allowed to undermine our currency. The Scottish Islands must be allowed to stay in the UK as they do not consider themselves part of an independent Scotland. It annoys me that the SM has taken credit for the success of the vaccine roll out in Scotland, it was nothing to do with her, it was down to the foresight and planning of the UK Conservative Government, Scots would probably not had a vaccine if it was left to the SM, they procrastinate as much as the EU.

Dear me.....

And they wonder why we want to leave.....

You can have your nuclear submarines. Good luck convincing some unsuspecting local council to accept them. And your opinion of the politics of the islands is interesting. I guess you mean Orkney and Shetland? Cos I know you don't mean Skye, or Lewis, or Harris, or Coll, or Tiree, or Colonsay, or Arran....och, I'm bored now.

I can empathise it’s not ‘about the money’.
It’s a visceral longing.

So be it.

Mind you, that Barnett formula worked out in 1978 is long overdue a revisit after more than 40 years. It will come in handy for England if the split does happen!

We feel very strongly that our ship building industry was taken away from the south coast ports and given to Scotland for political reasons not economic. Many men and women lost their jobs, their future gone, these jobs that were considered a very good and safe industry to get into. I love Scotland, I holiday occasionally in Edinburgh but I do get fed up with you playing the victim all the time, when other people have been severely affected by your need for investment, investment that seems to be only provided by the UK Government. If you were that attractive a proposition for investment you would have attracted it yourself.

Sorry to be blunt PGAgirl but I don't think you love Scotland at all. You love having a nice place to go on holiday to. We're not Brigadoon, we're a modern country. You love us but you say we play the victim, you grudge us investment and we're not an attractive prospect for investment anyway. Would you have the same opinion about Liverpool, or Newcastle? Or is it just that you think we're getting above our station? Well you'll be glad to be rid of us, I'm sure.

Forsythia

My view is let all four countries have their independence. Let them all go it alone and see if they prosper. However, if they don’t, then on their heads be it. What are the arguments for staying as we are. What do we all gain from it? Very little from my point of view, just constant bitterness and arguments. So, why can’t we all have a referendum on independence? I’d vote for that.

The majority of people in Wales are not asking for independence or even a referendum.

In fact, the Conservatives beat Plaid Cymru into 3rd place.

Why should you vote for Wales's independence when they clearly do not want it?

This is a very silly example but I'm going to use it anyway. When I was young I could have stayed in my mum's house and been happy and comfortable and not taken any chances. But I went into the world and for a while I was hard up but I made my own way and eventually had a nice life. That's what I want for Scotland

But then join the EU?

The same analogy would apply to those who voted Brexit, then, and helps me to understand why they did.

It seems odd that posters who condemn those who did vote for Brexit are often those posters who applaud the fight for Scottish independence.

Is it me who is confused by this or them?

It's you.