Scottish Election 6 weeks away.

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I was horrified when I saw these tables illustrating what's happened to education in Scotland under SNP

I was horrified to see that people are still using the discredited Lib Dem style of data presentation to try to make people think things are different to how they really are.

PISA scores are down in Scotland, that's true. SNP haven't done well in education, but now, what about these graphs. What are the comparisons with other countries? How have other countries changed? What are the parameters that give rise to the score? Why are you using misleading axes? Actually, why aren't you defining the y-axes at all? What is the implication of the comment about bold type?

I don't know a thing about PISA but I know about data presentation. Did some updates for you, attached. I probably have too much time on my hands..

Why are SNP refusing to release the latest education report until after the election? If it was any good they'd be shouting about it from the rooftops. Our children's education has suffered enormously under SNP.

Probably because there's an election coming up and they are politicians. I'm not deifying them, education is not good.

In 2019 almost 40% of children from poorest backgrounds left primary school without meeting basic literary benchmarks and nearly one third failed to achieve the same in maths . There is also a reduction in subject choice in secondary schools .
Pisa is a programme for international student assessment , based on the ability of pupils to use reading, maths and science knowledge. Scotland’s performance in all three subjects ranks well behind where it stood in 2000. There was some recovery in 2019 in the reading scores . For a Government who wants to be judged on education it’s not good news for a major piece of research to come out with this news.
In 2019 ,England was the highest achiever in all 3 subjects within the Uk ‘s 4 education systems.

Alegrias you always strike me as a very fair commenter on SNP. Its hard to understand why you support them though.

Thank you Aveline. I'm happy to explain why I post like I do.

Any party that has been in power for 14 years is going to start to run out of steam. There are going to be things that they get wrong. So when it comes to government, I look at manifestos and past performance to decide on who to vote for.

But I have a red line; I think Scotland should be independent. I know many disagree with me. But I couldn't vote for a party that doesn't support independence, because it is so contrary to my basic political beliefs, so more than half the parties are off my list straight away. Of the parties who do support independence, there is only one who has any experience of running a country.

If Labour could take the step of "allowing" for independence, I can see me going that way. Green probably have the policies at the moment that most match what I'd like to see. Its good we have the list system in Scotland so that I can send a vote that way.

One can be in support of independence without being an SNP fanatic, many people don't seem to get that (I don't mean you). This is a thread about the election, not independence, but it gets pushed in that direction all the time.

I think the thread gets pushed to discussing independence because the SNP will use a majority vote to push for another independence referendum, obviously,....so if you vote SNP in this election you have to be sure in your own mind that you are happy to have another Indy Ref.

Yes, I agree Cathymac If you vote SNP this time, you're accepting that you are happy to have another referendum. (Or Green, or if you're really feeling anarchic, Alba )

And if and when we have another referendum, that's the time to talk about borders, and currency, and fiscal policy for an independent Scotland. But now we're voting on education, the environment, etc.

Sorry but I think Cathymac is right. SNP will take even the tiniest majority as a definite vote for independence.
SNP really haven't covered themselves in glory in the last 14 years. Them losing their touch isn't a recent thing. They've wasted public money, not passed on Covid support money (which is an outrage in itself) and made some very bad decisions all the while blaming Westminster as if Scotland isn't already represented there.

I was agreeing with Cathymac too Aveline.

The SNP will take "even the tiniest majority" as a mandate to have another referendum, their manifesto is clear about that. They would be forgiven for thinking that any majority would show that there is still support in Scotland for independence, but after the elections next week, the most they can do is have a referendum. Short of declaring UDI, and Sturgeon is far too savvy to even consider that.

So, if the majority of the country vote for parties that want to have a referendum, we need to have a referendum. Then when we're having a referendum, let's have all the discussion you want about borders and currency.

Douglas Ross is missing a trick by constantly harping on about how they are the only party to stop the SNP. Why isn't he harping on about education? Why isn't he harping on about the economy? My view - he's a one trick pony who has been told be WM to focus on preventing a referendum and that's all he's got.

I know my opinion, as a Scot not currently living in Scotland, will never count but , having watched the leaders' debates on tv, I thought that Willie Rennie would be by far and away the best First Minister.

I know it won't happen. No matter how good the arguments, there is a lump of the Scottish electorate who will support the SNP no matter how dreadful their record in government is.

Why is Scotland the Europen record holder in drugs deaths?

The budget for drug rehabilitation was drastically cut by the Scottish Government from £114 million in 2007 to £53 million in 2020.
For example Castle Craig Rehabilitation Centre in Peeblesshire took in more Dutch patients ... all paying of course... than NHS funded Scots patients.. only a handful of Scots were funded .
Nicola Sturgeon said she “ took her eye off the ball “. What a crass thing to say about something so serious. She decimated the drug treatment services against the advice of all the experts. ... slashed the funding and all but wiped out the rehab places .

'Taking her eye off the ball' was a desperately crass thing for Sturgeon to say for all the reasons listed above.
Varian I entirely agree re Willie Rennie. He, like all the LibDems, is very sensible. I fear that middle of the road, practical, down to earth parties will be crushed between warring ideologies. Its a great pity as we need more voices of reason.

Lots of discussions about local elections in other threads but we're all very quiet about Scotland. Have we all lost the will to live?

Aveline

I was horrified when I saw these tables illustrating what's happened to education in Scotland under SNP

You don't even need experience of data presentation to read the numbers superimposed on the bar graph. 498 is not half of 533, but the graphics make it appear to be, as though performance has halved. People retain their first visual impression of a graph, even if the figures are in the pic somewhere.

Why haven't the SNP released the OECD report into Scottish education? Another paper to be drip fed and redacted? Scottish education has deteriorated significantly in the past 14 years. Wonder why?

Its spreading. Sky News last night, although I didn't see it live.

7% is about half of 51%

Alegrias1

Lots of discussions about local elections in other threads but we're all very quiet about Scotland. Have we all lost the will to live?

Yep! ?

We, like I believe one million others in Scotland, have got postal votes this time so it’s all over for us, bar the counting. Maybe that’s why people aren’t contributing.

I think you could be right SueDonim.

I'm voting in person tomorrow. Gets me out of the house

Aveline

I was horrified when I saw these tables illustrating what's happened to education in Scotland under SNP

The bars on those graphs are completely out of proportion, as Elegran says.
Two of them also appear to have got their sums wrong.

Horrifying indeed.

I applied for PV’s because we didn’t know what the pandemic situation would be in May.

I’ve got an outing tomorrow, too. I’m going to the vet! Well, my two cats are.....£££££

The percentage drop in attainment is indeed horrifying.
I'll be voting in person. Its all very depressing. More of the same most likely and that's been pretty awful.

And we're off.....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c37d28xdn99t/scottish-parliament-election-2021

I’d vote more confidently for independence if I knew 2 things.
1. Will Scotland alone be expected to defray the cost of the referendum?
2. Will there be a full explanation of how the border, finances, jobs on either side of the border and anything where currently money comes as part of the UK will be affected?