How do we stop boys who become drunk being labelled as sex predators?

eazybee

What about the parents? Shouldn't they be taking responsibility?
I had to collect my 14 year old daughter from her schoolfriend's birthday party, because the girl's father had arrived with several young men and tipped a bottle of brandy into the homemade punch. My daughter was terrified, and wouldn't even wait in the house; she waited outside, and I could hear the shouting and drunken behaviour when I arrived.

That sounds awful eazybee!!

Thankfully in my experience, with both sons and daughters, I didn't come up against anything similar.

Our daughters had it drummed into them that the effects of too much alcohol can be devastating and they knew what would happen if they ever came home drunk, ( we would only have grounded them, but it was never revealed, they say now that they thought that we would put them into care!) our GD won’t go anywhere near alcohol and our GS is the same, they have very high principals ( strong Vegetarian ethics, want to save the planet etc.) and are often the butt of jokes from their peers. They have also been brought up to know the effects of alcohol not only on your inhibitions but on your life.
Ironic really there we were telling our children ( much to their horror) in front of their friends about the perils of drink and my DB was ( unknown to us) an alcoholic, the GCs were in their early teens when he died from Alcoholic poisoning, so that really hit home.
It has to be education at home and in the schools, show graphic pictures, show videos of victims of alcohol, don’t tiptoe around the subject. If the parents won’t do it then the schools must.

I don't disagree oopsadaisy but there is always the danger of making the item in question glamorous or dangerous with this approach.

suziewoozie

Drunken teenage boy steals car, crashes into another car containing mother and children who are all killed. Never mind, he was drunk, not in a fit state to ask for permission to drive car. Never mind, he’ s a nice boy really, gets a bit daft when he’s drunk, didn’t mean any harm, he’s really sorry now .........

Or

drunken teenage girl steals car, or just drives car, crashes into etc.

When we first moved to Scotland it was not uncommon for all manner of crimes to be treated more lightly because the defendant was drunk and therefore not able to control their own actions. Thankfully that excuse no longer washes in many courts, and it should be the same regarding sexual manners.

If we say a boy can’t control his sexual actions because he is drunk, then a girl surely cannot consent to sexual actions if she is drunk.

I have two boys and two girls, btw.

AmberSpyglass

How about we teach them to stop being sex predators? That should do it.

this^^

I'm actually a bit shocked by some of the comments on this thread. When I was a young woman I had my drink spiked even though I was extremely careful. Afaik Rohypnol was quite 'new' in those days but it was a huge problem locally to me at the time.

Can we really blame sexual desire for assault? Surely most nice people with good moral conduct don't assault other people in any way, even if they are young or under the influence of alcohol.

If the girl makes the first sexual contact is she the sexual predator?

I put it out there for consideration.

If you ask - and every man/boy must know by now that they should - and either get a "no" or no answer but continue it is rape. Simples. This applies to any relationship of any length.

I do agree we need to educate about sex and relationships (however fleeting) to counteract the easily available pornography.

In answer to Peasblossom - girls should ask too if the initiate the sexual contact. We are all equal - aren't we?

Yes, that’s what I think. But there still seems to be an idea that males always welcome sexual contact and that abuse can’t work both ways.

I’ve heard more than one group of girls giggling about putting their hand on a boy to see if he fancies them.

And if a girl is drunk she can’t be held responsible for what she says and does, but if a boy is drunk he can be held responsible for what he says and does.

There seem to be some real double standards going on here.

I'm sorry trisher, but I totally disagree with your post.

Anyone, of either sex/gender getting drunk and then forcing sexual contact on another person IS a sex predator.

I've read posts on the site you are referring to. Those boys ARE sex predators. If girls exhibit those behaviours, then they are sex predators

If a person can't stop themselves from attacking others when drunk then they 1) Shouldn't drink and 2) Should be prosecuted. Male OR female.

Peasblossom

If the girl makes the first sexual contact is she the sexual predator?

I put it out there for consideration.

If he says no, then yes, she is. Is it is mutual to begin with and then one of them says no, the other one MUST stop or it is assault.

Let us not fall into the myth that men/boys have sexual drives that are so strong that they cannot overcome them. Because if that is the case, they need medicating or locking up.

trisher

NotSpaghetti It isn't necessarily rape. It's sometimes what would have been called in my day "heavy petting". In my experience girls are sometimes coerced into this, but they have sexual drives as well, so fuelled by drink they may have instigated sexual contact. If the drunken boy carries on is it really assault? I know actual sexual intercourse with someone who is unconcious is rape but when does contact become assault?

Yes. It’s assault.

This is sounding a lot like victim blaming to me.

Peasblossom

Yes, that’s what I think. But there still seems to be an idea that males always welcome sexual contact and that abuse can’t work both ways.

I’ve heard more than one group of girls giggling about putting their hand on a boy to see if he fancies them.

Yes, this is what I was getting at.

If the post about 'blaming sexual desire for assault' was aimed at me, then no - I'm not doing that at all. What I am saying, (and I say it with the absolute understanding that no means no at whatever stage of the encounter) is that there will be times when young people's accounts of what happened after alcohol has been consumed will be hazy, and possibly encouraged by what friends have said about what happened.

I repeat - I am not saying that it is ok to pressurise people into sex, and am not saying that being drunk is an excuse for anything, just that I don't think that anyone (male or female) should spend the rest of their lives labelled a sex offender for something that nobody concerned can properly remember.

I agree with you Calendar Girl. In the 50 also I never got really incapable Babysham brings back memories someone gave me a Babycham mixed with brandy at a Party it was my party and I sent everyone home.

Peasblossom

If the girl makes the first sexual contact is she the sexual predator?

I put it out there for consideration.

If she continues past a no, then yes

I have a son and daughter. I brough both them up quite explicitly to know that they must treat people with respect and I discussed with my son how ashamed I would be if he was involved in any event where he forced himself on a girl or did anything she would later regret.

He grew up with parents committed to sexual equality, who treated both children the same. Nobody at home would ever have said anything to suggest that a double standard of sexual morals for men and women was acceptable, quite the contrary.

As for drink, I have always believed that alcohol consumption, far from being a mitigating factor in any crime, should actually be treated as an agravating factor and the sentence increased if the perpetrator was drunk. My children grew up with that as well.

There wasn’t the money around for youngsters to get so drunk in the 50 s and 60s.
In the late 80 s /early 90s when my girls were old enough to start going out they used to tell me that even walking through a pub or club on the way to the loo or their table they were regularly touched sexually by men who they were passing, not a word was said, the women were seen as fair game. Happy to say many of them got a hard slap, but not all girls could or would react like this.
I was appalled that this went on with impunity. Don’t forget rape in marriage was not illegal until relatively recently. Not sure now when.

Just reread the title of this thread How do we stop boys who become drunk being labelled as sex predators?

My response is that if a boy becomes drunk and sexually assaults someone, he is a sexual predator. the fact that he is drunk, or only a boy is no excuse whatsoever. The word 'labelling' makes it sound as if his drunkeness means he dosn't deserve the appellation 'sex predator'. He does.

M0nica

Just reread the title of this thread How do we stop boys who become drunk being labelled as sex predators?

My response is that if a boy becomes drunk and sexually assaults someone, he is a sexual predator. the fact that he is drunk, or only a boy is no excuse whatsoever. The word 'labelling' makes it sound as if his drunkeness means he dosn't deserve the appellation 'sex predator'. He does.

Exactly.

Painting men as victims again

I read many of the stories on the everyone's invited website and they are truly shocking. Some comments here have mentioned the girls being very drunk but many of the stories I read even though they were drunk the girls were still saying "no". Some of the girls not drunk did it because they didn't like to say no.

I’m ashamed to admit I have committed a couple of “indiscretions” , when drunk. No way was it forced on me . Alcohol has a lot to answer for .
It’s a really tricky area I think. Undoubtedly education both at school and at home is good but whether those young people remember that education when they’ve had a few....

Well now. A step further. Some posters have said that assault on males happens if he says no after a sexual advance.

If it’s not assault until he says no, does that apply to men putting a hand on a woman’s private parts, as long as he stops when she says no.

If not, why is it different?

And Monica would you say that being drunk is also no excuse for a girl who initiates sexual contact?

I think females should be responsible and not get so drunk that they "pass in and out of consciousness"
I brought my Sons up to be responsible and explained in great detail exactly why they should never get themselves in that situation.
I remember one occasion when my son and his Gf went to a party and she got incredibly drunk, he phoned me at about 1 am and asked me to come and get them. I did go and pick them up and when I saw how drunk she was I drove her home to her mums, I wouldn't allow her to stay and told them why, he got it but she kept saying my mum will kill me. I don't drink, I haven't since my first pregnancy. I believe no one should ever be legless and not know what's going on and that we should all take responsibility for our own actions.