A year of Starmer What do you think?

From what I’ve read on Labour Facebook pages Starmer is reviled and everyone seems to have forgotten how useless Corbyn was both at PMQT and in elections. It seems to me they don’t want to get rid of the worst government/governments in living history but are going to vote Green. I despair.

I haven't seen PMQs for a few weeks but a friend told me yesterday that at a recent one Johnson told 6 untruths. A Welsh MP stood up to question the last untruth and Johnson walked out. Apparently he does this often when confronted about his lies.

When KS queries Johnson, the response is unrelated to the question. I did see the Speaker once ask BJ to answer the question put and to point out that it wasn't the Opposition's responsibility to put forward their policies since they aren't in govt. Certainly they can query the govt's policies and KS has done that.

I do think that this Speaker is not up to much because he doesn't take BJ to task over his untruths. I watch the Daily Politics with my lunch when it's on and their fact checker points out the mis-truths and incorrect facts, of which there seems to be many. Had Bercow still been Speaker things would be very different for the govt and I for one regret his departure.

I think quite a few of the very far left do Maybee but that didn't win them an election, did it. With Corbyn on the far-left and Johnson on the very far-right, I rather think people want something more centre/centre-left. The balance to the see-saw so to speak. Starmer may be able to do it but he has been hamstrung by the pandemic. We will probably just have to wait and see. I just wish he would offer PR - but that's a personal wish; I don't know what they country would feel about that.

Dinahmo

I haven't seen PMQs for a few weeks but a friend told me yesterday that at a recent one Johnson told 6 untruths. A Welsh MP stood up to question the last untruth and Johnson walked out. Apparently he does this often when confronted about his lies.

When KS queries Johnson, the response is unrelated to the question. I did see the Speaker once ask BJ to answer the question put and to point out that it wasn't the Opposition's responsibility to put forward their policies since they aren't in govt. Certainly they can query the govt's policies and KS has done that.

I do think that this Speaker is not up to much because he doesn't take BJ to task over his untruths. I watch the Daily Politics with my lunch when it's on and their fact checker points out the mis-truths and incorrect facts, of which there seems to be many. Had Bercow still been Speaker things would be very different for the govt and I for one regret his departure.

Johnson lies at every single PMQ ( and on most occasions in between when he opens his mouth) He lied yesterday at the press briefing.
I agree the Speaker is beyond useless which is why the Tories wanted him.

In the Guardian (of course) I recently read an article about KS pointing out that unlike most party leaders he hasn't yet had an opportunity to present himself and the LP policies to the general public. He became party leader after the GE and last year there were no local elections. This year there are local elections and so perhaps we all should reserve judgement until later.

Finally, he has written the odd piece for most of the papers.

I don't think he was ever intended to be PM. He was brought in to make the LP electable, which I think he is doing well. He is an excellent contrast to 'Boris', and comes across as professional and competent, which is more than can be said for the PM.

It is interesting that people always refer to him by his full name, or as 'Starmer', whilst using the PM's 'stage name' of Boris. To me this indicates the differential in the amount of respect in which the two men are held.

In the end, though, I think that a more charismatic candidate will be in place before the next election. Unfortunately, the public is now used to soundbites and entertainment instead of debate and statesmanship, so someone like Sir Kier will struggle to compete for attention. I wonder whether Andy Burnham will be a good alternative? He is personable, sensible and is good in front of a camera.

I agree that the Speaker is hopeless, and that this is why Johnson gets away with so many lies. Love him or loathe him, Bercow would never have allowed it, and whatever their politics, I'd like to think that most people would see this as a good thing.

Doodle food for thought there. Will go and digest it and return anon ?

MayBee70

From what I’ve read on Labour Facebook pages Starmer is reviled and everyone seems to have forgotten how useless Corbyn was both at PMQT and in elections. It seems to me they don’t want to get rid of the worst government/governments in living history but are going to vote Green. I despair.

The momentum/militant group dominate the Facebook groups. There are a couple of Facebook groups, such as Keir Starmer for PM that have comments from what I’d say are more moderate left leaning people.
I saw Starmer, Nandy and LongBailey during the last leadership campaign. Lisa Nandy was good and is growing in strength and ability. Starmer was the strongest candidate. I liked his presentation.
He’s a mountain to climb with people who claim to want a Labour government but do all they can to undermine the party and the leader.
I wonder if he is the Kinnock candidate who has to rid the party of the momentum types, lose the next election and bd replaced. I’d like to see Lisa Nandy - but I’d prefer Starmer to win the next election. Some hope of overturning that 80 majority

I don't think he will last and fear he is overseeing what Owen Jones described as politics by focus groups, rather than policy driven politics. He does I think firmly believe he can destroy the left wing and maintain a party, the problem is that the left were never "far" and if it has no left wing, what is the Labour Party?

I don't think he will last and fear he is overseeing what Owen Jones described as politics by focus groups, rather than policy driven politics.

That is so interesting because that is just what the tories are doing, and being very successful too...

Starmer is too subdued in PMQ. He is more quietly spoken where Boris is a loud character, who ridicules everything he says and looks around the room for applause seemingly.

MaizieD

^I don't think he will last and fear he is overseeing what Owen Jones described as politics by focus groups, rather than policy driven politics.^

That is so interesting because that is just what the tories are doing, and being very successful too...

I think perhaps the difference is tht the tories have policies they put to Focus Groups and then adapt to what is discovered, where as KS has dumped all the policies and is hoping in vain that focus groups will give him some.

It is possible that he is listening to the focus groups, and keeping his powder dry for the election campaign.

^ where as KS has dumped all the policies and is hoping in vain that focus groups will give him some.^

How do you know that , trisher? Are you in one of them?
Or do you have access to their proceedings?

Until policies are formulated before the next election, there is no point in speculating about what has or has not been rejected.

Starmer has plenty of time.

The pandemic is the big focus, but hopefully as that wanes, then minds will turn to other serious issues, like climate change and that old perennial Brexit, which will of course be rearing its ugly head big time.

Once we can read the policies and judge for ourselves how Starmer is performing over issues like, Brexit, climate change, poverty, inequality, NHS, housing etc we will be in a better decision to make a considered judgement over his suitability for PM.

Mind you if suitability means constantly lying, cronyism and corruption, plus a willingness to “spaff” taxpayers money up the wall” (charming expression) then Starmer has lost before he has begun.

MaizieD

^ where as KS has dumped all the policies and is hoping in vain that focus groups will give him some.^

How do you know that , trisher? Are you in one of them?
Or do you have access to their proceedings?

I'm judging from his actions. The way he forced MPs to vote in Parliament. Things like the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill which should have been the focus for real opposition just nodded through. His inability to present any honest or open ideas, instead he just seems to be busy making sure the right wingers who lost the LP the 2017 election are allowed to get away with it

I don't think I had much hope for Biden three years ago so I live in hope. Starmer is competent and intelligent and knows his way around the law. If he does win a future election I hope they have a drains-up on all Johnson's spending.

It must be very difficult to argue with Johnson just now, without appearing to be willing to put the public at risk over the pandemic. The responsible thing to do is provide a united front, but it must be very frustrating for him.

When we come out the other side, I hope that Sir Kier can insist upon a proper independent enquiry that will show what worked and what didn't, and how much was spent on what, and that the government can be judged on their performance, rather than their pre-arranged statements in what have become party-political TV briefings. After that, he will be able to show us all what he's made of.

I still think he will step down before the election campaign, though, and I am even more sure that whoever is leader they won't be fighting Johnson - he will leave when the economy rises post-pandemic, and before it tanks soon thereafter, so his successor will have the Brexit fallout and the Covid bill to sort out, whilst he goes off to play happy families and watch from the sidelines while waiting to see his name in the history books.

It must be very difficult to argue with Johnson just now, without appearing to be willing to put the public at risk over the pandemic. The responsible thing to do is provide a united front, but it must be very frustrating for him.

I think that what must be frustrating for him is seeing Johnson put the public at risk, knowing how it could be avoided and and not being able to do much about it. He's been ahead of Johnson most of the time.

The only thing I'd criticise him for in relation to the pandemic was making such a point of getting the children back to school after the first lock down; when it really wasn't very safe.

Goodness, how I wish that Bercow was still Speaker. I have watched just about every PMQs since last April and Johnson hasn't answered any question, or told the truth, in all that time. What a waste of space Hoyle is...

The problem is people don’t see Hoyle as aiding Johnson because he’s Labour. Politics is quite bonkers these days....

I wonder how anyone imagines Starmer will regain the "Red Wall" he will always be remembered there as a Remainer.

trisher

I wonder how anyone imagines Starmer will regain the "Red Wall" he will always be remembered there as a Remainer.

That may not be such a bad thing as the Brexit effect gradually takes hold.

Whitewavemark2

trisher

I wonder how anyone imagines Starmer will regain the "Red Wall" he will always be remembered there as a Remainer.

That may not be such a bad thing as the Brexit effect gradually takes hold.

Ah but now there's Covid to blame for the bad bits and Brexit gave us the best vaccination programme.

Life moves on. A few people will always say they "will never vote for a Remainer" but the voters were older, some will die, the younger ones will have lives to get on with an "Brexit" the cult will fade in the shadow of ordinary life. I don't think the Tories can win on just that again. Add to that the Tory MPs themselves don't seem to overwhelmingly like or trust Johnson and he doesn't seem to stick at anything for long.

Who have they got and what have they got to offer without the circus act?

I think Starmer has the great problem that he now appears to be in collusion with the group on the right working in the LP office who prevented the LP winning the 2017 election. The least he could have done was to allow the enquiry into the allegations to go ahead, but this now appears to have been sidelined and is unlikely to ever report. Starmer has paid off some of the accused and returned one to a post. Given that this small group possibly destroyed and almost certainly damaged democracy it seems extraordinary that he has behaved in such a way. I think the LP membership is coming to trust him less and less.