Biden does the right thing (although perhaps not for the right reasons)

PippaZ

suziewoozie

Here in the UK I think we have it about right.

Why do you think that? Is the NIC system fair? Are our various types of indirect taxes that would impact the poorest most fair? Have we got VAT right? What about Council Tax? Stamp duty, IHT, CGT - we’ve got it all about right? Well clever us.

Interesting Suziewoozie. If I have read you right you are saying that where income comes from something other than work you are happy that we do not pay a tax equal to that paid on money earned by working but that it is far easier to make money (by paying less tax) from anything other than work. Is that what you mean?

You seem to have expanded to the taxes outside any Biden is looking at. What are your opinions on these other taxes?

Aaghhh sorry my post was meant as a response to lemon who made the comment about us having it about right and I forgot to put her name in which then made a complete nonsense of my post. Sorry ( utter twit that I am) our tax system is unfit for purpose

Puts her head rather nervously above parapet.
MazieD
I’ve been following your posts for a few months. You might remember I posted once to ask you to explain something you posted that I couldn’t follow -too succinct- I think was what I said. And you did explain to me in a friendly way. It’s been a subject of interest and stimulation during lockdown.

I still have (stupid,ignorant,uniformed) questions and observations, like most people grasping something new but I wouldn’t air them here because of the comments that would follow.

The essence of learning and change is to be able to express thoughts and expect a measured response. Perhaps there are several like me who are interested but afraid of being embroiled in unpleasantness, so won’t ask or comment and so topics like this become the haunt of a few.

I’m not afraid of discussion or being challenged about ideas. I’ve even been known to change my thinking when something makes sense. Again it might have been you that responded to my question on another thread about Brexit and said something that completely altered how I saw things.

That’s productive. I wish we could discuss things without sneering and sarcasm.

suziewoozie

Here in the UK I think we have it about right.

Why do you think that? Is the NIC system fair? Are our various types of indirect taxes that would impact the poorest most fair? Have we got VAT right? What about Council Tax? Stamp duty, IHT, CGT - we’ve got it all about right? Well clever us.

Interesting Suziewoozie. If I have read you right you are saying that where income comes from something other than work you are happy that we do not pay a tax equal to that paid on money earned by working but that it is far easier to make money (by paying less tax) from anything other than work. Is that what you mean?

You seem to have expanded to the taxes outside any Biden is looking at. What are your opinions on these other taxes?

I don't have a degree in economics either but we can learn something new every day, thankfully. To be honest, if you don't know something where is the harm in asking or looking it up? Isn't that part of how we learn?

I wonder why there is such a need to derail this thread by those who would definitely get a GCSE in ad hominem remarks?

Here in the UK I think we have it about right.

Why do you think that? Is the NIC system fair? Are our various types of indirect taxes that would impact the poorest most fair? Have we got VAT right? What about Council Tax? Stamp duty, IHT, CGT - we’ve got it all about right? Well clever us.

^It seems that if somebody did a degree in economics over 50 years ago they tend to never let anyone forget it.?
That’s social media for you.^

I think you'll find that your comment here applies to MOnica.

I don't have a degree in economics; I've just been studying it closely for the last few years.

Let’s focus on the capital gains part, because it gets right to the heart of what’s wrong with our tax system.

Right now, the system treats capital gains — for instance, the money you make when you sell a stock — better than money you make from working. The top rate on capital gains is only 20 percent (plus a 3.8 percent Obamacare surcharge for high earners). It’s one of the clearest ways that our tax code has been built by and for the wealthy, who pay the overwhelming majority of capital gains taxes.

Biden’s proposal would treat capital gains just like regular income. If because you’re wealthy you’re being taxed at the 37 percent marginal rate on your income, that would apply to your stock sales too.

Why does the Washingtonpost say Biden hasn't gone far enough? Because he does something our own Labour Party are likely to do. He has made a promise not to raise the taxes for anyone earning less than $400,000 a year. If the premise that all income should be taxed at the same rate on a progressive basis then this stops short of doing that.

This principle of all income being taxed at the same personal rate also falls short when it comes to other income, such as inheritance.

I hope one of our parties sees the point of equality and the levelling up effect this could have but I do agree that Biden while making a huge step forward has not done all he could with this.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/23/bidens-plan-tax-hikes-rich-is-good-it-doesnt-go-far-enough/

MaizieD

M0nica

I dislike intellectual superiority however it is expressed. How many of you knew immediately what MMT was? If you use terms like that they should either be expanded or explained

So, MMT stands for Modern Monetary Theory. Any the wiser? I doubt it. Here is a reference en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory. Any the wiser .........?

As I've made many posts about MMT over the past few years, MOnica, I think quite a few posters will have got the idea if they've read them. And I know that they have been read! I've had comments on them at the time and only yesterday a poster made reference to my familiar postings; a derogatory reference, but a reference that showed that she has read them...

I'm more than happy to do another post about it if people still don't understand it...

Yes Monica completely agree with your post.

It seems that if somebody did a degree in economics over 50 years ago they tend to never let anyone forget it.?
That’s social media for you.

On tax ( not that I’m very interested in other countries and their tax systems) it is only fair to tax the rich more, but not so much that they look for ways to avoid it by investing overseas.
Here in the UK I think we have it about right.

Alegrias1

I didn't know what MMT is. I looked it up. Now I'm wiser, thanks M0nica.

Thank you PippaZ for starting a thread about something I can learn about.

If you, and anyone else who is interested to know about MMT, have 30 mins to spare this video is really worth watching. It's American, so has to be translated to British institutions and terminology, but the principles remain the same.

The Millennials' Money

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHQCjFebIf8

Thank you MOnica. I didn’t know what MMT is. Probably none the wiser now to be honest but thank you for calling it out.
?

Sorry, double post. I'll get one deleted.

Sorry if I'm diverting your thread PippaZ (I'm not being sarcastic - it's come to a pretty pass that we have to say that )

Suzie I think we're in strenuous agreement . If someone starts a thread about something I don't know about, but it sounds interesting, I'll try to find out about it. If somebody posts that everybody knows the moon is made of green cheese, I'll happily get into that fact-based argument!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I'm not sure what 'evidence' you want suziewoozie. I did 'evidence' what Biden has decided to do and that was what the OP was about.

This does seem like yet another deflection but that seems to be the GN way.

Alegrias1

I didn't know what MMT is. I looked it up. Now I'm wiser, thanks M0nica.

Thank you PippaZ for starting a thread about something I can learn about.

I get your point - I’m just fed up at the moment of posts where no knowledge or learning is evidenced.

I didn't know what MMT is. I looked it up. Now I'm wiser, thanks M0nica.

Thank you PippaZ for starting a thread about something I can learn about.

The Tories have been forced to adopt a similar policy, but not with the imaginative flair, it will be interesting to see how they explain it away when they try to return to the fiscal conservatism so loved by the Tory right.

Must go?

I wonder if the worlds reaction to Covid and the lack of vaccine sharing, etc., will change any of that Maizie. Those left with the sweepings may be very angry and rightfully so. However, India's government seems to have gone for a policy to increase the riches of some while not supplying the vaccine to the people in need so the changes will probably be country by country.

I just hope what Biden is doing changes the swing of politics in other countries, including our own.

Yes, Whitewave I am too - but pleased. It should make it harder (I hope) for the Tories to attack the less well off yet again.

Enjoy your lunch.

pippa it was clear from his pre-election speeches that MMT was going to play a part in his economic management, but I am surprised as to the extent it has done so to date.

I am just off out with my first lunch with a friend for a year?, so hope this discussion is still going strong when I get back.

M0nica

I dislike intellectual superiority however it is expressed. How many of you knew immediately what MMT was? If you use terms like that they should either be expanded or explained

So, MMT stands for Modern Monetary Theory. Any the wiser? I doubt it. Here is a reference en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory. Any the wiser .........?

Wow, I think your post simply shows that you haven’t been keeping up with the various narratives that have taken place on myriad threads over years of discussion on GN.

I therefore advise if you wish to take part is not to suggest everyone is too dim to understand but to be a bit more humble and admit you don’t and can’t know everything!

PippaZ

So, so far we have just had deflections from the OP. Any thought on that?

As I agree wholeheartedly with Biden's actions I really don't have any comment to make on it, but, I am constantly surprised that with finite resources available to us on this planet and an ever growing population, a considerable number of people seem to think that it is fair that a tiny percentage of the planet's population can monopolise most of the available resources leaving the rest to make their way as best they can with what is left.

Not only that, but while approving this highly inequitable resource monopoly they are prepared to demonise those who are struggling if they dare to suggest that they might be allowed a larger share.

M0nica

I dislike intellectual superiority however it is expressed. How many of you knew immediately what MMT was? If you use terms like that they should either be expanded or explained

So, MMT stands for Modern Monetary Theory. Any the wiser? I doubt it. Here is a reference en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory. Any the wiser .........?

As I've made many posts about MMT over the past few years, MOnica, I think quite a few posters will have got the idea if they've read them. And I know that they have been read! I've had comments on them at the time and only yesterday a poster made reference to my familiar postings; a derogatory reference, but a reference that showed that she has read them...

I'm more than happy to do another post about it if people still don't understand it...

So, so far we have just had deflections from the OP. Any thought on that?

I am happy to agree it is just another tax suziewoozie.