Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls?

Totally agree with Baggs and Mollygo

So, why don't we cut out the middleman, Mollygo and just let the civil service take over?

What is the point of electing anyone if they don't actually do anything (see your post at 16.30)?

What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death? (Copy and pasted that but I don't think it will work)

I'm no fan of Boris Johnson, but if I try and imagine if Keir Starmer was PM, would anything be much different, he supported most of the Government decisions at the start of the pandemic. Perhaps if there is a proper investigation into the procurement contracts, and whether the "chumocracy" led to more deaths than if the contracts had been more carefully awarded, maybe Boris Johnson would not have such unquestioning support I don't know.

Witzend

*Maybee*, I don’t know where you got the idea that Starmer ‘makes people’s skin crawl’.

I don’t think it’s that at all. Skin-crawling is the sort of thing many of us used to feel about the likes of Jimmy Savile. It’s just that he’s seemingly lacking in anything to inspire or attract Joe/Jane ordinary voter. He’s a bit of a grey nothing-very-much.

I was replying to what Rosie said. He certainly doesn’t make my skin crawl! I admire him enormously and was in tears listening to him on Desert Island Discs. I didn’t highlight rosies post because I keep clicking on the wrong buttons and highlighting the wrong ones! Am doing a bit of forum hopping at the moment and fall over myself a bit sometimes!

but what I find interesting is that David Cameron (Eton-educated, posh voice, wife with impeccable taste) is perceived as elitist and out of touch, whereas Boris Johnson (Eton-educated, posh voice, fiancée with questionable taste) manages to convince swathes of the British people that he’s an ordinary bloke, just like them

wide of the mark there janeainsworth. Boris got an 80 seat majority (and votes from the Red Wall too) because he promised to Get Brexit Done.

Posho Cameron was a Remainer. So much so, he buggered off, whistling (!) when he stepped down. So, he wasn’t PM for everyone then, only Remainers. I remember thing ‘cheers Dave’ for that.

Theresa May was ambivalent and prevaricating. “Nothing Has Changed”. We got upset over that (Brexit voters who felt frustrated by the almost non-progress with Ollie Robbins in tow).

We rose up - given the chance at the ballot box - and Boris gave them all a bloody nose.

Bodach

trisher

Gossamerbeynon1945

All Labour voters should read the Mumsnet thread, especially the last post. It is about a cartoon in Private Eye. A Labour canvasser visits a home where the man is wearing a Union Jack Tshirt and the woman an I Love Brexit one.
The canvasser says "Why don't you racist, fascists vote Labour?"

I don't think the rise of right wing extremism in this country is something to joke about. And it is happening.

Are we to infer from this, trisher, that you equate wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with either a Union Jack or "I Love Brexit" to 'right wing extremism'? Surely, the joke's on the Labour canvasser who makes this absurd connection?

I think the fact that those symbols ,which are often seen when right wing extremists demonstrate, are regarded as just something to make jokes about indicates just how accepted rightwing politics is becoming. I find that very worrying particularly when it is combined with jokes about the Labour Party. It shows just how far to the right politics has moved. I suppose if you live in an area where there are no such demonstrations it might be regarded as just a laugh, and Labour opposition to such things as racism, as just a joke.
Unfortunately for some people the racism is real.

Gossamerbeynon1945

I have already said that I can'tdo links.

I have also already said that the thread is in Chat and the title is

"What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?"

Ah. I didn't see that post.

It's here

Strange that it's in "Chat".

Alegrias1

Epistocracy

It's a thing.

Apparently so, there are numerous articles/papers to be found on the subject.

Mollygo

So having elected Mr Charisma of the Century as PM, who does the actual governing of the country?
The civil servants, who are always in power?

Well, it was Cummings

But .....

I can see why it's gone into chat!

PippaZ

Yes I thought the fact it was in Chat was rather strange, but it is a good read.

Posho Cameron was a Remainer like the 48% of the population who voted to remain, Urms.
It doesn’t explain Boris Johnson’s popularity. Brexit may have been ‘done’ to your satisfaction but it may yet result in Scotland leaving the Union, chaos in Northern Ireland, not to mention the impact on our agriculture & fishing industries.

Gossamerbeynon1945

What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death? (Copy and pasted that but I don't think it will work)

No, you copy its address from the address bar

Like, to link to this thread I'd copy its address and paste it here:

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1295092-Anyone-understand-why-Johnson-is-so-far-ahead-in-the-polls?pg=7

This would take you to page 7 of this thread.

You can make your link into a word, like Pippa did, but that's clever stuff..

I am not very clever and very old, but I try my best (I can see how this statement is all over the place because earlier I said I went to a Girls Grammar School, and had an excellent education. I am just very old! I admit that I struggle!

Urmstongran

Actually bear with me a minute as I’m typing as I’m thinking this thought (probably dangerous!) but could the £58,000 be relative money-wise? As in the wealthy people who have a lot of money might not be looking upon it as ‘cash for curtains with a payback later’. i.e. a ‘bung.

What if we scale this right down to ‘our’ level? To our own groups in life.

What if my car had a puncture and I needed a new tyre but was financially pinched. I was looking at a small loan or an overdraft facility but a kind friend steps in and buys me the tyre? I’m a bit embarrassed but grateful. I offer to pay the friend back when I can (soon as) but she is well off, kind and says ‘no need, it’s forgotten already’.

Not everyone in this life is looking for kick backs. There really ARE kind and generous people in this world. Have you never come across one in an hour of need? I have. Lucky for you if you haven’t ever experienced a financial shortfall.

?

Clutching at straws here I think.

Posho Cameron was a Remainer - like the 48% of the population who voted to remain, Urms

I realise that ja but 48% wasn’t 52%.
It definitely contributed to Boris’ success (title of the thread).

but what I find interesting is that David Cameron (Eton-educated, posh voice, wife with impeccable taste) is perceived as elitist and out of touch, whereas Boris Johnson (Eton-educated, posh voice, fiancée with questionable taste) manages to convince swathes of the British people that he’s an ordinary bloke, just like them

I think lots of people find that interesting. There must be something about Johnson that makes ordinary people think that they'd feel quite comfortable having a pint with him in the local pub and, conversely, something about Cameron that doesn't make them feel that. What could it be?

Perhaps one of them gave the impression that they believed in that quintessentially important thing: democracy.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case, in politics impressions matter.

Elsewhere too like in the passage in italics above whose choice of words in certain places gives quite strong impressions of approval and disapproval.

Which said, it has just occurred to me that Johnson doesn't give impressions of disapproval. There's our answer to the conundrum in a nutshell.

I think Boris is popular because he doesn't think people can change sex, (self Id, if you say you are a woman/man then you are.

A lot of women will not vote Labour, Lib Dem or Green Party
because of this. The Green Party call women Non Men!

Women are 51% of the population so why should they lose out?

Eventually the public will care about the govt's corruption.

The following taken from GLP

"Good Law Project is now able to reveal the names of four more companies awarded contracts through the VIP lane: Clandeboye Agencies, P14 Medical, Luxe Lifestyle and Meller Designs.

P14 Medical, run by a Tory councillor and donor, was awarded £276m in PPE contracts.
Meller Designs, run by David Meller a large Tory donor and trustee of the rightwing lobby group Policy Exchange, was given more than £160m in PPE contracts.
Luxe Lifestyle was awarded a £26m contract despite appearing to be insolvent and without any employees.
And Clandeboye Agencies whose registered trade on Companies House is “wholesale of sugar, chocolate and sugar confectionery” was awarded £108m in PPE contracts (see page 73 and following). We should say that the Government says Clandeboye was not in the VIP lane – but its own internal documents tell a different story.

These four are in addition to Ayanda, which enjoyed a £252m deal negotiated by Liz Truss adviser Andrew Mills. And Pestfix which won approximately £350m in contracts despite being described by Government as a company “which specialises in pest control products, that was dormant in 2018” (see page 73). There remain a further 41 firms yet to be revealed."

* The total awarded to these 6 companies is £1172 million.*

Having just read a few posts on the mumsnett thread I think you could be on to something Gossamer

Boris Johnson is a gift for Conservatives in these elections.
Keir Starmer is also a gift that keeps on giving ... to the Conservatives.

GrannyGravy13

I think you are right!

trisher

Bodach

trisher

Gossamerbeynon1945

All Labour voters should read the Mumsnet thread, especially the last post. It is about a cartoon in Private Eye. A Labour canvasser visits a home where the man is wearing a Union Jack Tshirt and the woman an I Love Brexit one.
The canvasser says "Why don't you racist, fascists vote Labour?"

I don't think the rise of right wing extremism in this country is something to joke about. And it is happening.

Are we to infer from this, trisher, that you equate wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with either a Union Jack or "I Love Brexit" to 'right wing extremism'? Surely, the joke's on the Labour canvasser who makes this absurd connection?

I think the fact that those symbols ,which are often seen when right wing extremists demonstrate, are regarded as just something to make jokes about indicates just how accepted rightwing politics is becoming. I find that very worrying particularly when it is combined with jokes about the Labour Party. It shows just how far to the right politics has moved. I suppose if you live in an area where there are no such demonstrations it might be regarded as just a laugh, and Labour opposition to such things as racism, as just a joke.
Unfortunately for some people the racism is real.

Oh, come off it, trisher. You are really straining the bounds of credibility, if you expect me to believe that you find these so-called symbols "very worrying". What you really are concerned about is that Private Eye (a publication which no-one would accuse of being right wing) dares publish a cartoon lampooning the Left-Wing's usual tendency to see fascism and racism in everything that does not follow their blinkered world view. You know: the sort of thing that the vast majority of UK citizens of all shades of colour and opinion just find funny! Go on... allow yourself a wee smile once in a while. You'll feel better for it.

Bodach

Made me smile, rightly or wrongly.

Agree with the vaccine bounce. People are so pleased to get it they find it difficult to care about the goings on in No 10. Johnson is getting all the credit for what others have done.
Once more he will come up smelling of roses.
Some day things will come home to roost.