Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls?

varian

We will never see democracy in action in the UK until we reform the totally corrupt and undemocratic voting system which allows a party most voted against to gain a huge majority of MPs and do what they want for the next five years.

Do not pretend UK is a democracy.

You are so right Varian. Maybe this is what the next election will be about? We certainly need something to keep the narcissistic and egotistical at bay. Just to cheer you Varian I have voted LD in our council election.

I have to say I have never heard the idea that democracy only happens at an election. Does anyone else think this? If so we may as well all give up hoping for a democratic country, surely?

Democracy is government by the people especially : rule of the majority.

This country is ruled by the MINORITY.

lemongrove

Forgive me if I laugh varian...because you back an unpopular political party does not mean that it negates our voting system.

What a ridiculous comment. Our voting system is complete and utter crap whatever political party you support.

I could never vote Lib Dem, especially after they sold their soul to be in a coalition government?

Every person legally in the UK has the right to vote!

GrannyGravy13

Every person legally in the UK has the right to vote!

That doesn’t make it a good system though does it?

And as one of the fair minded posters GG what’s your take on the HSecs plan to change the voting system for Mayors?

It doesn’t make it a bad system either suziewoozie

suziewoozie

And as one of the fair minded posters GG what’s your take on the HSecs plan to change the voting system for Mayors?

Have not heard/read anything about it, have you a link?

GrannyGravy13

suziewoozie

And as one of the fair minded posters GG what’s your take on the HSecs plan to change the voting system for Mayors?

Have not heard/read anything about it, have you a link?

I’ll find one - I have to say the fact that it is so little discussed speaks volumes. Obvs it’s not for this round of elections of Mayors ( it also includes PCCs).It’s basically going back to FPTP rather than being able to state a second preference.

GrannyGravy13

It doesn’t make it a bad system either suziewoozie

It needs far more discussion than this doesn’t it?

FPTP is the least democratic system but appeals to the right wing because it is the easiest sustem for a well funded party with huge support in the media to "fix".

I can’t imagine there would be any cries of ‘not fair’ from posters who want a different voting system if Labour had won the last election...ok, maybe from varian.
It wouldn’t be the best way to govern anyway as various European countries show us, a mish mash coalition end up fighting like cats in a sack and rarely get anything done.
Voting out a government every few years still seems to be the best option.Or, voting them in again if wanted.

Didn’t Tony Blair win at least one if not two of his elections with a lower majority than the present Government?

GrannyGravy13

I could never vote Lib Dem, especially after they sold their soul to be in a coalition government?

I haven't found being so rigid in my views very useful. This is a local election and he is a local person who has, so far, done well for the area.

lemongrove

I can’t imagine there would be any cries of ‘not fair’ from posters who want a different voting system if Labour had won the last election...ok, maybe from varian.
It wouldn’t be the best way to govern anyway as various European countries show us, a mish mash coalition end up fighting like cats in a sack and rarely get anything done.
Voting out a government every few years still seems to be the best option.Or, voting them in again if wanted.

Well try and imagine a bit more - I’ve been a supporter of some form of PR for at least 50 years through all types of elections. I really care about meaningful democracy not just what suits me at any one time. Your comment about other countries is superficial in the extreme and it’s not just European countries that have different voting systems from us.

GrannyGravy13

Every person legally in the UK has the right to vote!

They would all still have the right to vote under PR. What are you trying to suggest; it isn't clear.

OK, in at the deep end.

We have d'Hondt in Scotland, so that seats are allocated approximately in proportion to the number of votes cast. It's not perfect, but its better than FPTP, IMHO.

The government here is often compared to a one-party state by those who don't like it. So, how do we marry up the idea that PR causes unstable coalitions with the accusation that Scotland is a one party state?

Which is exactly why I voted Conservative last election same reasons, and why I will vote for the incumbent Conservative Councillor for my ward on Thursday. PippaZ

PippaZ

GrannyGravy13

I could never vote Lib Dem, especially after they sold their soul to be in a coalition government?

I haven't found being so rigid in my views very useful. This is a local election and he is a local person who has, so far, done well for the area.

Me too - I almost always vote LD at local elections and for the PCC.

In 1983 a party with 25.4% of the vote won 23 seats (1.5% of seats) while a party with 27.6% of the vote won 209 seats (32.2% of seats)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_elections_overview

How could anyone ever defend such a travesty of democray?

Alegrias1

OK, in at the deep end.

We have d'Hondt in Scotland, so that seats are allocated approximately in proportion to the number of votes cast. It's not perfect, but its better than FPTP, IMHO.

The government here is often compared to a one-party state by those who don't like it. So, how do we marry up the idea that PR causes unstable coalitions with the accusation that Scotland is a one party state?

Spoilsport ?

The d'Hondt system is a big improvement on FPTP but it is still not truly proportional. My preference would be Single Transferable Vote.

I believe that coalition governments have proven to be, on the whole, very succesful. Just look at Scandanavia.

It is only spoilt children who think they should have their own way all the time.

Co-operation and concensus are not dirty words.

varian

Democracy is government by the people especially : rule of the majority.

This country is ruled by the MINORITY.

One problem with PR or AV systems is that there would often be no clear majority returned. This could result in coalitions or, worse, end up with no decisions ever being made and a continual stalemate.

We do have the chance to vote a government out; it could result in no majority and a disastrous coalition but that is not usual.

In the Senedd elections there are two systems.

There is a constituency list, First Past the Post system, voting for one constituency member.

In addition, there is a regional vote:
The regional vote uses the Additional Member System: this time there are 13 different groups of candidates to choose from (some English rejects amongst them).

In addition to that is the vote for the PCC which uses the Supplementary Vote System.

There are pros and cons to all systems.
However, using a mix of systems could become confusing.

It would be interesting to have an informed discussion about the different types of voting systems as well as the different types of elected chambers in different countries. And allied to that, is the way in which powers are differentially allocated in different countries between different tiers of government. Added to that is the existence or otherwise of directly elected officials, and the electoral cycle. That’s why it is so ludicrous to blithely state ours works best whether it’s the voting system under discussion or the overall democratic structures.