What I think will happen tomorrow

Good post Alegrias.

Sparkling

My father would not recognise his beloved Labour Party Urmstongran. All his life he was an active member. Although we had different views, his were coloured mainly by his time in the war and what he witnessed, he could discuss differences in a rational way and respected others views, the very opposite of what the party is now for all the reasons you state. To support Corbyn was unbelievable. Now there is a multi millionaire lawyer head of Labour, not speaking against the woke movement and the social disruption. My grandchildren will grow up thinking this is how grown ups behave and therefore acceptable. We have as a nation readily let these bullies have almost free reign. I am glad I'm the age I am, despite the financial hardships in the first third of my life I worked and made it better and didn't blame the world for my problems and expect others to pick up the tab. A member of my family who has unfortunately never taken responsibility and gets every benefit going despite not wanting to work. I say not wanting he's more than capable., Whitewave, it's you that shouts predudice if you think having moral values is wrong that otgers can't stand this woke, taking the knee etc. I would be interested if any of these protestors actualy work, it must be awful working along side one with all their entitlement and angst.,Heaven knows what would have happened if labour had been in power through this pandemic, but they do come up with solutions after the event.

That's certainly an interesting perspective, Sparkling ?

I particularly liked this bit Whitewave, it's you that shouts predudice if you think having moral values is wrong

I don't suppose you'd like to explain what moral values Johnson embodies and how the tory party reflects them?

Actually Sparkling the changes the Labour government introduced after WW2 almost certainly played a role in the success you've enjoyed in life.

And what the heck is wrong with being "woke"? It's an admittedly silly word for caring about others.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I rather liked this bit about expecting others to pick up the tab, too,
I am glad I'm the age I am, despite the financial hardships in the first third of my life I worked and made it better and didn't blame the world for my problems and expect others to pick up the tab.

This from the follower of a man who lives rent and running costs free in government provided accommodation, with an annual redecoration allowance of more than a great many people earn in a year, who expected tory donors to pay his excess decorating costs and for the nanny of the latest of his children (of which he has at least 6, a number that many people would be condemned for having if they couldn't afford to look after them), and who takes free holidays and free luxury food parcels, all on what most of his voters would consider to be a decen salary, paid out of the public purse, and, who does as little work as he possibly can get away with, I find deeply ironic.

The ultimate benefit scrounger leads the UK and people who hate benefit claimants just love it.

Maizie on top form I see ??Well done

I don't think I have ever seen so many far right extremists on a thread on GN.

I think that they are just thoroughly confused, Pippa. They subscribe more to the beliefs fed to them by the tory press than by genuine tory values.

We must all be ‘woke crackpots’ in Wales by these accounts- I think not.

You’re right about Mark Drakeford suziewoosie. He’s very quiet, has no charisma, has very few if any skeletons in his cupboard, gives the opposition very little ammunition to fire at him - and on the whole has done a pretty good job, most people in Wales think he’s competent even if they disagree with his political stance. He’s actually the complete opposite of all the other UK parliamentary leaders. All very interesting, although after 22 years of Labour in power I think people do want a bit of a shakeup, and it will be a Labour/Plaid coalition here.

I’m watching Scotland with great interest though, I’m surprised that the Tory voters aren’t really concentrating on that much more than it seems they are.

I agree with most of what you said PippaZ but I don't think GN actually has many far right extremists. I always think of jackboots and random arrests when I hear that phrase, and I don't think we're there yet.

I do think however that we have a lot of very right-leaning people who really have no concept of what the world is like, and who think everybody is out to get them because their fathers worked down t'pit and we had it hard you know. Lived in a paper bad in t'middle of t'road. (No offence please Yorkshire people, its my transcription of the Monty Python sketch ). People who think we should look after ourselves rather than look after other people. Especially if they are brown, LGBTQ or far away.

And they wonder why in Scotland we don't vote Tory like England and we want to go our own way. Wales, come and join us!

Casdon - I'll hazard a guess that they think we have all been hypnotised by you know who and can't see what a good chap wee Dougie Ross is. You know Dougie Ross, who told people this week that a vote for the SNP was one way to guarantee an independence referendum. He's a gift, honestly, almost as good as Johnson.

Funny how the Monty Python mob were all rich upper middle class Oxford/ Cambridge types. What would they know?

Alegrias1

I agree with most of what you said PippaZ but I don't think GN actually has many far right extremists. I always think of jackboots and random arrests when I hear that phrase, and I don't think we're there yet.

I do think however that we have a lot of very right-leaning people who really have no concept of what the world is like, and who think everybody is out to get them because their fathers worked down t'pit and we had it hard you know. Lived in a paper bad in t'middle of t'road. (No offence please Yorkshire people, its my transcription of the Monty Python sketch ). People who think we should look after ourselves rather than look after other people. Especially if they are brown, LGBTQ or far away.

And they wonder why in Scotland we don't vote Tory like England and we want to go our own way. Wales, come and join us!

We may not yet have jack boots and random arrests but we certainly have supporters of white supremacist and fascists which could lead to that.

This has gradually developed over the past year or so, with people getting bolder and not ashamed to put forward such extreme views.

I agree with pippa I think it is worrying.

nanna8

Funny how the Monty Python mob were all rich upper middle class Oxford/ Cambridge types. What would they know?

And your point is ??????

nanna8

Funny how the Monty Python mob were all rich upper middle class Oxford/ Cambridge types. What would they know?

Really? That was what you took from my post? All well, at least we're not complaining about pencils.

BTW - Cleese's dad was an insurance salesman and Gilliam's was a travelling salesman then a carpenter. Terry Jones's dad was a bank clerk. Oh, the privilege.....

BTW - Cleese's dad was an insurance salesman and Gilliam's was a travelling salesman then a carpenter. Terry Jones's dad was a bank clerk. Oh, the privilege.....

It's this strange tory belief that Labour doesn't support workers' aspiration but anyone who does come from the working classes who 'betters' themselves can be sneered at for not being real working class...

I have no relatives past or present who have been down the pit however, we have been down a disused Gold Mine in Bendigo.

I have never known anyone to live in a paper bag in the middle of the road I do know many young couples struggling with mortgages, bills etc.

I have plenty of friends who come under the LGBTQ banner.

To make sweeping generalisations that Conservatives have no idea how real people live is laughable in the extreme.

I could question that those GN members who are retired have no idea what it is like to run a business during a pandemic and are out of touch with business and industry in 2021, but I would not be so rude to do so.

Alegrias1

nanna8

Funny how the Monty Python mob were all rich upper middle class Oxford/ Cambridge types. What would they know?

Really? That was what you took from my post? All well, at least we're not complaining about pencils.

BTW - Cleese's dad was an insurance salesman and Gilliam's was a travelling salesman then a carpenter. Terry Jones's dad was a bank clerk. Oh, the privilege.....

The depressing regularity with which the average right wing poster makes up things as they go along ...I’ve almost given up cross checking.

And working in the law is somehow a barrier to winning elections. It really isnt.

GrannyGravy13

I have no relatives past or present who have been down the pit however, we have been down a disused Gold Mine in Bendigo.

I have never known anyone to live in a paper bag in the middle of the road I do know many young couples struggling with mortgages, bills etc.

I have plenty of friends who come under the LGBTQ banner.

To make sweeping generalisations that Conservatives have no idea how real people live is laughable in the extreme.

I could question that those GN members who are retired have no idea what it is like to run a business during a pandemic and are out of touch with business and industry in 2021, but I would not be so rude to do so.

Who mentioned Conservatives?

Also, I didn't say right wing people didn't know how real people live, I said they don't know what the world is like.

Also I didn't say everyone was like that, but I said that there were people like that.

This is the trouble, isn't it, you can't make any point without somebody taking it personally and getting offended. Where have I heard that before?

Alegrias1 as for your last sentence, I am not taking it personally and getting offended

I hoped to point out that continued all encompassing statements regarding far right is as futile as a Conservative calling out the looney left, (which I would respectfully point out I would never do)

Neither extreme position is helpful or constructive, and to continue to stereotype folks will get us (GN posters) or the UK anywhere.

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1 as for your last sentence, I am not taking it personally and getting offended

I hoped to point out that continued all encompassing statements regarding far right is as futile as a Conservative calling out the looney left, (which I would respectfully point out I would never do)

Neither extreme position is helpful or constructive, and to continue to stereotype folks will get us (GN posters) or the UK anywhere.

I think that if people identify with white supremicists or fascists, then they qualify as extremists.

Whitewavemark2 do you really think that posters are identifying with white supremacists or fascists?

If your answer is yes, please take this Conservative out of your equation.

GG13, I was disagreeing with a post, now deleted, that talked about the far right. So I could respectfully point out that you have got the wrong end of the stick entirely.

So I'm not stereotyping people, I'm doing the opposite,. Criticising a group of people with certain characteristics is not stereotyping. I know that there are Conservative voters on GN that I agree with on many things. But there are some, let's say, rather extreme ones.

Constantly being on the defence and seeing criticism where none is intended, that's not doing us any good either.

Alegrias1

*GG13*, I was disagreeing with a post, now deleted, that talked about the far right. So I could respectfully point out that you have got the wrong end of the stick entirely.

So I'm not stereotyping people, I'm doing the opposite,. Criticising a group of people with certain characteristics is not stereotyping. I know that there are Conservative voters on GN that I agree with on many things. But there are some, let's say, rather extreme ones.

Constantly being on the defence and seeing criticism where none is intended, that's not doing us any good either.

I will admit to not reading the deleted post/s , if I have got the wrong end of the stick (or even the wrong stick) I apologise.

MaizieD

^I don't think I have ever seen so many far right extremists on a thread on GN.^

I think that they are just thoroughly confused, Pippa. They subscribe more to the beliefs fed to them by the tory press than by genuine tory values.

I would like to think that is true Maizie but the same could be said of any of those who follow men (it has been men so far) who subsequently become dictators, etc.

As I always say if I report a post I hope whoever persuaded GNHQ to delete mine is going to tell us who they are.