What I think will happen tomorrow

Urmstongran was correct in her prediction for Hartlepool.

Not a surprise, Starmer has not convinced Labour voters he is any good, Boris has been successful with the Covid vaccination programme.
As the pandemic recedes we will see what happens, current growth predictions are optimistic, although it’s not hard to be better than last year.

I honestly and truly believe that when Keir Starmer took the knee that was the beginning of the end for him with Red Wall voters.

Starmer has been party leader for 14 months

If taking the knee upset some people, their bad. Starmer’ s track record on equality is second to none.

Urmstongran

I honestly and truly believe that when Keir Starmer took the knee that was the beginning of the end for him with Red Wall voters.

Why

I think there is something in that actually as difficult as that might be. So if you are in Hartlepool working 50 hours a week and still living in poverty, watching footballers earning 50 000 a week telling you to take the knee might be difficult to swallow. You focus on the things that are important to people jobs housing crime etc and then you get elected. Then you can do what you like in terms of equality, so Blair did not get elected on a campaign of lgb rights for example but did more for
equality in that area than the current labour party. I say this as a supporter of Starmer.

With you Galaxy

You have a point Galaxy. Noticably Biden is softening all the "me too" and historical wickedness chatter. Still acknowledging it but definitely not screaming about it.

I'm okay with that as long as they continue to do something about it.

galaxy that is true I think, but it is not the main factor as ug suggests.

The reason that the w/c vote has gone to the Tories is as a result of an accumulation of neglect and being taken for granted since the Thatcher era.

These things don’t happen over night.

The working class vote went for Blair, 3 general election wins,

No, with you on it not being the main factor Whitewave. It seems they have gleened the "leave" votes. Now it will be interesting to see what they can do with that. They have also, and perversely seem to have captured a "time for a change" group. Weird ... I think so.

Agree, the LP needs to appeal more broadly to working people. I’ve no issue with the support shown at that time for BLM. I agree the focus on lgbt, trans etc etc can alienate. Look at the disagreements on gransnet about trans issues for eg

Coming from a left wing working class background it is my belief that the Labour party have lost sight of their roots. When I speak to people they tell me they want politicians to take notice of them and not spend all their time listening to the London "elite".

I also dislike the term "working class" - as my father used to say if someone has to work for a living they are working class -no matter what their job or salary. He felt it was a term used to keep people in "their place" and kill ambition.

The Labour Party needs to start looking further than it’s members.

Yes they need to do a Biden, it's about ' connection' which is almost impossible to predict, Biden came across as ordinary, the kind of home spun stuff that appealed to the electorate. It's an absolute nightmare to be honest, I dont see how you are going to get the Hartlepools back. Or maybe they shouldn't try to.

I see that Momentum are already blaming the Hartlepool disaster on Labour’s failure to emphasise the right sort of policies. (Right as in left of course.).
You honestly couldn’t make it up.

IMO until Labour rid themselves of Momentum and the Uber-woke brigade, and find themselves a truly believable and inspiring leader, they are going to be wringing their hands and blaming the non-right-thinking masses for a long time.

Oh dear. If only all these silly Tory voters would come on here and listen to the highly educated, oh so knowledgeable Labour loving gransnetters who know so much better than everyone else.

Reading comments by a certain section of GN illustrates the total lack of insight into the reason large swathes of the country have turned away from the LP. Maybe less woke and more wake up is necessary!

Seems Corbyn had the right policies and lost 2 elections,
Starmer like Kinnock has the far left giving him a kicking .

Tickingbird
I like your last sentence ?
Personally, I’m over the moon that the people of Hartlepool have given the Labour Party the finger.
The Westminster elite have had contempt for these people for how long?
But now at long last those people have shown their contempt for the Labour Party.

Katie59

Not a surprise, Starmer has not convinced Labour voters he is any good, Boris has been successful with the Covid vaccination programme.
As the pandemic recedes we will see what happens, current growth predictions are optimistic, although it’s not hard to be better than last year.

I agree - the context of this election is ( to coin a word) unprecedented. The vaccine roll out alone would have made it unthinkable for the Conservatives to fare badly in these elections and in strong Brexit areas, that issue is added to the mix. The Bank of England forecast yesterday was encouraging but there are still so many unknowns.

suziewoozie

Katie59

Not a surprise, Starmer has not convinced Labour voters he is any good, Boris has been successful with the Covid vaccination programme.
As the pandemic recedes we will see what happens, current growth predictions are optimistic, although it’s not hard to be better than last year.

I agree - the context of this election is ( to coin a word) unprecedented. The vaccine roll out alone would have made it unthinkable for the Conservatives to fare badly in these elections and in strong Brexit areas, that issue is added to the mix. The Bank of England forecast yesterday was encouraging but there are still so many unknowns.

Agree.

This was never going to be the beginning of the opposition recovery and a drumming for the government, given the unprecedented situation.

It is going to be pretty difficult in 4 years time let alone now, but I do think that the next 4 years could be interesting, particularly once the covid issue has been put to bed????.

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

I honestly and truly believe that when Keir Starmer took the knee that was the beginning of the end for him with Red Wall voters.

Why

Because optics count! It just reinforced the Labour image of wokeness. Boris wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ and nor he said should our Police. American unrest is not our problem to embrace. Yes, it is amongst the woke and the intelligentsia but not us working class types. We think it just looks plain daft.

So If taking the knee upset some people, their bad well Iam64 I think it’s Labour’s.

Out of interest what was the turnout compared to previous elections? Did a lot not vote as they feel politically homeless? Just wondering.

Polarbear2

Out of interest what was the turnout compared to previous elections? Did a lot not vote as they feel politically homeless? Just wondering.

I shall be interested to see this - I’m sure there will be many variations.