Queens speech

Whitewavemark2

I think that we can safely assume that the introduction of IDs is nothing to do with voter fraud.

Election Maps UK
@ElectionMapsUK
At the 2019 General Election, out of 47,587,254 people voting, there was only 1 conviction of voter fraud (+0 cautions).

That represents 0.0000021014% of votes.

What is wrong with voter ID, many countries have it, including the one my family live in. Those that can’t afford it are given one free. Just because only one has been caught doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Remember Tower Hamlets!!

You can get a citizens card but it only lasts for 3 years and is £15

Whitewavemark2

Johnson speech.

Liar!

24 July 2019

“I am announcing now – on the steps of Downing Street – that we will fix the crisis in social care once and for all with a clear plan we have prepared”

The details will be laid out later in the year. Do you realise what a massive undertaking this is, having worked in the NHS for over 30 years, yes it is.

Will this Animal Bill finally sort out illegal fox hunting?

With regard to social care it needs to be provided it on NHS terms, which means free at the point of use.

Everyone must contribute and everyone will be provided.

Nothing else will work.

Johnson needs to look at countries like Germany and others who have had the courage to tackle this major and growing issue.

The ID issue and fraud is a total red herring.

Callistemon

MaizieD

Alegrias1

Good article MaizieD I hope those saying they don't understand the problem with voter id read it.

They won't...

I don't object to ID cards in principle.

We had to produce ID when we went for our vaccines; either a driving licence or passport or a bus pass.
Only older people have bus passes.

I wonder what happened with those who had none of the above?

I didn't show ID for either vaccination. I showed my email, I gave personal data but no physical ID was asked for.

Will people asking what's wrong with voter ID please read MaizieD's article. Because it tells you.

Chestnut

MaizieD

Urmstongran

Chestnut

Wasn't there a problem with students voting at the home address and also at their university address some time ago. I believe some Labour activists were even encouraging it. If that is happening then it should be stopped.

There was Chestnut. Well remembered!

Poof that it happened?

If you Google 'students voting twice' you will see several articles from the Independent, the Sun, The Daily Mail, The Express and others. It seems some did claim they had voted twice but the extent of abuse was difficult to investigate due to the voting system. It would be more sensible to register them at their home address only, and if they are not there then have a postal vote. I don't believe students should be able to vote at university. They are only temporary residents, they don't live there, and some towns and cities have huge student populations and this will artificially inflate the figures.

Articles in the media are not proof when based on such a vague foundation as 'some students claimed'. Articles in the media are only of evidential value if written by imvestigative journalists who taken time to thoroughly research their subject.

Perhaps you could show me a successful prosecution of a student for dual voting? Even better, (because the dual votes of one or two students isn't going to affect a result) the prosecution and conviction of several hundred dual voting students?

Electoral Identity Cards are required in Northern Ireland, according to the application process on The Electoral Office for Northern Ireland they are free and not complicated to apply for.

Given that certain groups in society are declining the vaccine because they think the state is untrustworthy, how do you think they are going to feel about having to apply for photographic ID to exercise a basic democratic right? Do you think they are going to be encouraged to vote by that? And all to avoid something that isn't a problem to begin with.

If you are suspicious of the state because of the way it has treated people like you over decades, are you going to be keen to associate your identity with your voting paper?

Now you can all come on here and say that's not what its about, or it will be easy to apply for, or any other irrelevant thing you can think of, but we should be encouraging people to vote, not making it harder.

social care is generally paid for by local authorities not NHS. Health funding is really difficult to get, even if you qualify

JaneJudge

social care is generally paid for by local authorities not NHS. Health funding is really difficult to get, even if you qualify

sorry to quote myself
but it is an issue of funding. Social care would be run much more efficiently if they had more money, it really is that simple.

Mamardoit, if you cannot vote without an identity card you may well be discouraged from attending at the polling station. It is already a problem that too few of the electorate turn out to vote.

I agree with Whitewavemark that social care should be accessible like health care via the NHS.

In the real world every efficient care worker , or even school teacher, can take a general 'diagnostic' look at the client or pupil, and communicate with other relevant agencies when needed. In the real world, social care is not separable from health care.

Do remind us about Tower Hamlets, Lin

How many of the allegations (not taken to court on the basis of insufficient evidence) related to in-person voting? Because it is in-person voting fraud that the ID is supposed to prevent.

This is from the 2013 report of the Electoral Commission

Cases relating to alleged postal voting offences accounted for 30% of all cases in Tower Hamlets, compared with just over 11% of cases recorded by forces overall. Cases relating to alleged false or inaccurate electoral register entries accounted for 52% of cases in Tower Hamlets, compared with just over 18% of cases recorded by forces overall. Cases relating to alleged false applications to vote by post accounted for 19% of cases in Tower Hamlets, compared with just over 4% of cases recorded by forces overall.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Tower-Hamlets-report-2013.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiOmcuY18PwAhUF8eAKHeD6DsEQFjAJegQIGRAC&usg=AOvVaw05h51Z1GZAD7OYWk2GLEtq&cshid=1620807107271

(Apologies for the massive link.)
Now, perhaps I'm missing something, but there appear to have been no allegations of 'personation' at Tower Hamlets, though quite a few relating to postal voting.

So how would voter ID have made any difference in TH?

BTW No charges were ever brought because there wasn't sufficient evidence. I'll remind you that in the UK you are presumed to be innocent until you are proven to be guilty. Well, there is at the moment, but no doubt our populist dictatorship would be happy to change it to a presumption of guilt by media reports until proven innocent.

Regards social care provision. I guess the fundamental problem is that everyone wants what no one wants to pay for. A solution will never be ‘found’, it will have to be imposed. If a government can’t do that when the opposition is underwater then when?

Unfortunately Social Care has become a postcode lottery we were extremely fortunate to have had carers come in for Mum when she was with us, in fact we only used half of our allotted slots . Our step-father was admitted to a home specialising in dementia and Alzheimer’s direct from hospital, the only bills Mum got were for chiropodist and barber.

My friend’s Mum who had dementia for six years, had no home visits from carers, only respite care for 6 weeks per year. She paid for home nursing when she had to go to work, they lived 4 miles away.

Urmstongran

Regards social care provision. I guess the fundamental problem is that everyone wants what no one wants to pay for. A solution will never be ‘found’, it will have to be imposed. If a government can’t do that when the opposition is underwater then when?

That is exactly where the courage is needed by Johnson. Unfortunately I’m not convinced that he has the spine.

Merkel took the bull by the horns against stiff opposition, but it has all faded away and look where they are now?

Got no problem with carrying a card around and have never been able to understand the protests. In fact I would probably feel safer to know that people are identified. We used to have medical cards years ago and that wasn’t a problem. It would also mean when we no longer drive and are not up for going abroad that there isn’t a real need for renewing passports.

Thin end of the wedge....

"Show me your papers...."

"You have no right to be here...."

Please just don't say "if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to worry about" ....

Really, when Hell freezes over.

Governments change, things can be undone we are not in Russia, China or North Korea with no voice!

Alegrias1

I will carry an ID card with me when hell freezes over.

It's very chilly for May!

GrannyGravy13

Governments change, things can be undone we are not in Russia, China or North Korea with no voice!

Yet...

Further to my post at 9.37, I'll remind people that the Electoral Commission did find 'Vote Leave' guilty of breaking electoral law and they were fined £20,000. A derisory amount, but sadly the maximum they are permitted to fine.