Queens speech

I didn't show ID for either vaccination. I showed my email, I gave personal data but no physical ID was asked for.
Yes, presumably in England.

I was pointing out the difference between England and Wales.

Posters are talking about a right wing Tory government eroding our rights and our liberties by wanting to introduce ID cards.

I was pointing out that in Labour-run Wales the appointment letter stated that you must bring ID to the vaccination appointment in the form of a passport, driving licence or bus pass. In the event of none, then a utility bill would suffice. Yes, they did check it.
I do not know what happened in the event of having none.
I took my passport and everyone was given a proof of vaccination card.

Alexa

Mamardoit, if you cannot vote without an identity card you may well be discouraged from attending at the polling station. It is already a problem that too few of the electorate turn out to vote.

Couldn't agree more, Alexa

How does that affect postal votes? Presumably all voters are on the electoral register so would be sent polling cards.

Posters are talking about a right wing Tory government eroding our rights and our liberties by wanting to introduce ID cards.

As an aside, I'm curious as to how homeless people in Wales manage to get a vaccination if they had none of the ID you mentioned, Callistemon? A highly vulnerable group most likely to have none of the ID documents you listed.
Or do they just not get vaccinated?

Anyway, back to the main argument.

I have absolutely no problem with having a passport or a driving licence, they both fulfil an essential service.

I have no problem with having to produce ID for the collection of goods in certain circumstances. They ensure that the items go to the right person and provide the business with evidence of their customer care system in the event of any dispute.

I do have a massive problem with requiring ID for in person voting when it has never been needed and there is absolutely no evidence that it is needed.

Every UK citizen is entitled to vote. This is hailed as being the essential basis of our democracy. Putting barriers in place which could deny them this right is undemocratic. It also offers a pathway to voter suppression for an unscrupulous government.

No amount of whataboutery changes this.

As an aside, I'm curious as to how homeless people in Wales manage to get a vaccination if they had none of the ID you mentioned, Callistemon? A highly vulnerable group most likely to have none of the ID documents you listed.
Or do they just not get vaccinated?

gov.wales/people-experiencing-homelessness-be-prioritised-covid-vaccine

In brief:

Wales has become the first UK country to offer people experiencing homelessness priority access to a Covid-19 vaccine after Welsh ministers chose to deviate from official advice.

www.bigissue.com/latest/wales-becomes-first-uk-nation-to-offer-vaccine-priority-to-homeless-people

Thanks for that information, Callistemon

Well I never thought it would come to this but I am going off the Tories and will hope that a more acceptable party will replace Labour - I will certainly vote for them if they produce the right policies. And, remarkably......I am even beginning to agree with some of Whitewavemark2's views.
It is clear that the solution for Social Services is just simply being pushed down the road. It is a crime !!
As to ID I agree with many that a majority have ID but for those without - it should be provided free. I do feel it is a necessity.
My gripe regarding the Queen's Speech is that I think another grave omission, as well a Bill for Social Care, is a Workers Rights Bill. I am beginning to sense that the Tories have no concern for workers rights at all
I am astounded that there has been no mention of recalling the Workers (Definition & Rights) Bill which was introduced to the House of Commons in 2019. This bill was subsequently abandoned after the 1st reading - why? In the Queen's Speech of Dec'19 a suggestion was made that this would be brought forward. Now we get to May'21 and there is no mention of it at all. It is a disgrace that this has not been deemed of importance. There are so many insecure jobs currently. It is not possible to 'build back better' if we don't look after the workforce and make their jobs worthwhile. Having been a long time Tory I am hoping that a credible alternative will emerge...one that I feel happy to vote for.

Emily Maitlis on BBC Newsnight on scintillating form here tearing apart Chichester MP Gillian Keegan.
Maitlis - “UK data shows a 0.00001% of fraudulent votes. It is more likely that you'll be struck by lightning 3 times.”
Keegan - “To be honest, you don't actually know that.”

0.00001%

Did Johnson promise a social care plan, or not- where is it. Did anyone ask for Constitutional change on the doerstep, really?

Is the Queens speech not just an outline? The devil will be in the detail.

Urmstongran

Why are we scrabbling round to fit this narrative to suit the minuscule number of people in the UK who do not have any form of photo ID? The tail is wagging the dog here.

People convicted of voter fraud in the 2019 election - 1

People don’t have photo ID in the UK - 3.5 million

This far-right government is doing this purely to advantage themselves.

Urmstongran

Why are we scrabbling round to fit this narrative to suit the minuscule number of people in the UK who do not have any form of photo ID? The tail is wagging the dog here.

Exactly- the very point, Why oh why did Johnson choose to make this a big constitutional issue- for a minuscule number. Why. Which dog, which tail?

To encourage us to talk about this point instead of the main issues?

Aveline

Is the Queens speech not just an outline? The devil will be in the detail.

Johnson stood outside No 10 in autumn 2019 and announced that he has a social care plan ready to go.
There is footage of him so it show him up in all his lying glory

One, very simple question. To all Johnson supporters here, who trust his plan and vision.

Is he, or is he not- an habitual liar. Simple yes, or no, will suffice.

Is Boris Johnson and habitual liar? No he most certainly is not. Is that simple enough Kali2?

'Boris Johnson is a shameless pathological liar who will let you down'

Perhaps it's better to ask those who know him.

MaizieD

Further to my post at 9.37, I'll remind people that the Electoral Commission did find 'Vote Leave' guilty of breaking electoral law and they were fined £20,000. A derisory amount, but sadly the maximum they are permitted to fine.

I would say the remain campaign did something which should have been illegal by sending out millions of very detailed 'vote remain' leaflets to every household in the country paid for by the taxpayer. Much worse than anything the leave campaign did in my opinion. I certainly feel angry at having paid out to support the remain campaign without my consent.

should have been illegal

Leave campaign did something that was actually illegal. But that's OK.

Remain did something that someone didn't like but wasn't illegal. Off with their heads.

Kali2

One, very simple question. To all Johnson supporters here, who trust his plan and vision.

Is he, or is he not- an habitual liar. Simple yes, or no, will suffice.

I don't think people seem to care. They like him and his cavalier attitude because he somehow seems to muddle through, get things done and keeps going. Whatever you think of him, he has proved to be a strong leader who can survive the slings and arrows of the enemy.

There could well have been a social care plan in Autumn 2019 WWM2, but don’t forget that was before the world had ever heard of covid.

A properly funded plan would cost billions, so unfortunate though it is, it’s unaffordable at the moment.

I have long been in favour of compulsory ID cards, and there was nothing in the article referred to yesterday to change my mind.
It could well be a very efficient way of weeding out those who have no right to be here.

Alegrias1

^should have been illegal^

Leave campaign did something that was actually illegal. But that's OK.

Remain did something that someone didn't like but wasn't illegal. Off with their heads.

Would you have been happy if you had paid for 'support leave' leaflets to be printed for every household in the country? No, I thought not.

Gajahgran

Is Boris Johnson and habitual liar? No he most certainly is not. Is that simple enough Kali2?

I've been reading a book called 'Failures of the State' It's by two Sunday Times investigative reporters. So hardly left wing. It examines the government's actions over the past year in regard to the covid pandemic. And I can assure you that these journalists are actually quite sympathetic to Johnson when it's possible to be.

May be if people actually read about what went on they might not be so confident that Johnson is not a liar. We were continually lied to over last year.

There are hundreds of people calling him a liar in print, on the radio and on TV. Not to mention social media. Peter Oborne has even written a book about his habitual lying. I wonder why he hasn't been sued by Johnson for libel?

Perhaps it's because every lie Oborne details is absolutely verifiable.

You think you know what I care about? Fair enough.

Chestnut

MaizieD

Further to my post at 9.37, I'll remind people that the Electoral Commission did find 'Vote Leave' guilty of breaking electoral law and they were fined £20,000. A derisory amount, but sadly the maximum they are permitted to fine.

I would say the remain campaign did something which should have been illegal by sending out millions of very detailed 'vote remain' leaflets to every household in the country paid for by the taxpayer. Much worse than anything the leave campaign did in my opinion. I certainly feel angry at having paid out to support the remain campaign without my consent.

Still can't distinguish between a government leaflet, which, appalling though it was, was supposed to lay out the pros and cons of the alternatives, (like the one the government produced in 1973) and a campaign leaflet.