Queens speech

Another one here who doesn't understand why anyone would object to ID cards (and yes, I did read Maizie's link). I have had my driving licence so long that it doesn't have my photo on it; I do have a passport and bus pass though. However if I didn't I would think an ID card would be very useful.
Has anyone considered that people might be put off voting, not by having to produce ID, but because no-one can trust the candidates to do what they promise. This applies to all parties now, I believe, and makes it very hard to know how to vote in any sort of election.

Urmstongran

Good heavens, I need ID to collect shopping at Click & Collect so why on earth should I be allowed to vote without it?

The issue is the type of ID - there are so many people without photo ID which is generally a passport or a driving licence. What would happen with proxy voting, I wonder ...

HillyN- I for one do not object to having ID cards- as most other EU countries do. But the point is, in the UK we do not have an ID card system- it would take a couple of years to implement, and vast sums of money.

So either we do, or we don't Fact is that there is a very large number of people in the UK who do not have a passport, nor do they have a driving licence. And that insisting on such would, until a proper system is put in place and Goverment funded, discriminate hugely some sections of the population and ensure that large sections are unable to vote.

It is massively unfair, and totally undemocratic. If ID is going to be requested to be able to do our civic duty and vote, then it has to be done properly.

Calendargirl

FPTP- ?

First Past The Post

We do use "The Upper House" if you want an ungendered title grannygranby.

I'm not sure that would currently feel any more comfortable. Personally, I think we could have an Upper House that was all elected but we would then need a Parliament for the English.

I'm aware I'm going against the trend of this post but am I right in thinking that the OP is against the animal sentience bill? If so, why? I'm not being difficult, I'm simply confused.

Of course it will take time to implement.

ID cards should be free for those on low-income or receiving universal credit / in work benefits.

For the majority of those who have not already got a form of photographic ID a nominal charge would not be unreasonable.

(I haven’t got a bus pass (too young) and do not know anyone who has, but I believe a photo is needed for them, could they be used as a means of ID going forward I wonder?)

Daffydilly

I'm aware I'm going against the trend of this post but am I right in thinking that the OP is against the animal sentience bill? If so, why? I'm not being difficult, I'm simply confused.

I am fully supportive of this part of the Queens speech.

On a slightly different note my heart went out to the Queen. I think understandably she is very down and her sparkle has gone since the death of Prince Philip and it must have been very hard for her to deliver that speech. ID cards don't bother me, I would welcome them actually.

I don't understand why you are bothered about voter's IDs.

Are you really saying that formerly anyone could go into a polling station in the UK and state that she was Mrs Jane Smith of 10 Main Street or Mr John Brown of 19 Bank Street and cast a vote without anyone asking for their social security number?

In Denmark we have to produce the notification sent to us in our name telling us which polling station to go to, then someone checks that we are on the voter's roll, while another official checks our social security number and date of birth.

France, Germany and Austria have personal identity cards that citizens are required to carry on them at all times, and produce on demand from the police. We don't hence the cumbersome rigmarole at the polls.

No law-abiding citizen here objects to being asked politely to prove their identity or feels it and infringement of their personal liberty.

No law-abiding citizen here objects to being asked politely to prove their identity or feels it and infringement of their personal liberty.

Or

"If you haven't done anything wrong there's nothing to worry about"

Calendargirl

FPTP- ?

First Past the Post....the voting system in the UK as opposed to Proportional Representation....used in Scotland for example.

Photo ID for voting - so how does that work with the increasing push towards postal votes then?

Mamardoit

I don't see the fuss about voters needing to show some form of ID. Didn't Blair want to bring in ID cards? I had no objection to that either.

Any adult who doesn't have a passport or driving licence needs to be provided with an ID card free of charge. What's the problem. We all managed to get given a covid vaccine card it shouldn't be too difficult.

A bit of common sense at last

What is the objection to an ID card ...when living in Spain I had one (complete with finger prints) and also living in France. I think they are an EXCELLENT idea (even though I don't need more cards cluttering up my handbag !!) the only proviso I would want is an encryption of some kind to make it hard for fraudsters to print them. As for Democracy ......the UK is no longer a democracy from the definition being 'By the will of the people, For the people, By the people ......Boris is loving it ............

What is an ID card for, please? When will we need to use it?

Not including the voting things, which have been done to death upthread.

I can't see a problem with asking for IID when voting although there is not much voter fraud now but looking into the future that may not be the case

So it's not a problem and never has been but it might be one day so we'd better limit civil liberties now just in case?

25Avalon

MaizieD

Would remainers have been happy to pay (without choice) for everyone in the country to have a pro leave leaflet promoting the benefits of leaving and the awful consequences of remaining?

It would have been an awfully slight pamphlet

I reiterate. The pamphlet put out by the government was supposed to be a pros & cons thing for people to make their own minds up. Like we had in 1973 when we voted on remaining in the EEC.

As usual, being a tory government they got it completely wrong, though the cons. have turned out to be remarkably prescient, apart from the fact that they didn't happen overnight.

But Ted Heath lied to us

How did he lie to us?

Alegrias1

So it's not a problem and never has been but it might be one day so we'd better limit civil liberties now just in case?

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

I despair...

I have worked in polling stations at most elections since the early 70’s. I have always been amazed that the whole voting system in this country is based on trust. You don’t need a polling card to vote (although most people bring theirs). All you need to do is give an address and a name - no proof is needed that you are actually that person. I often wonder how many people voting are not who they say they are, but there is no way of finding that out in our current system. We simply do not know what the scale of voter fraud is in the UK. The few instances where it has been uncovered have been where someone has either admitted it/been overheard talking about it or has been recognised by polling staff as not who they say they are. Many foreign nationals who are allowed to vote in the UK (eg students) try to give us their ID and are astounded when we tell them we don’t need to see it. Although I am no supporter of the current government, particularly their privatisation of the NHS by stealth and mishandling of Covid, I personally have no objection to having to produce photo proof in order to vote - it seems sensible to me. As long as the proof will be provided free to anyone who hasn’t already got it (which is what they say will happen), I don’t see a problem with it.

"Are you really saying that formerly anyone could go into a polling station in the UK and state that she was Mrs Jane Smith of 10 Main Street or Mr John Brown of 19 Bank Street and cast a vote without anyone asking for their social security number?"
In a word: Yes. Those registered to vote are sent Polling Cards through the post, with all their details included, but there is no necessity to bring them along with them, nor to show them.
My (English) district council took part in the trial a couple of years ago, requiring voters to show ID, and I did Presiding Officer duties at my local polling station. There was absolutely overwhelming support for voter ID amongst those who came to vote - and the voter turnout was as normal.

I totally agree pintuck

You beat me to it, pintuck...

I agree Pippa that we sometimes use ‘the upper house’ but not formally. The Queen addresses the Lords the master of the rod gains entrance of the Lords by the Commons. They are the words used.
Ps agree ID cards are good idea with name age address and sex of person (not their gender which relies too much on sexual stereotypes) for fairness and safety.
I am pleased about the sentient animals law too.