I do wonder- is this what the Brexiters wanted?

growstuff

Oh dear! Yet another fairy tale! The EU have had accounts audited. You really shouldn't believe all the scare stories you read!

They hadn’t in 2016 when I voted to leave.

My sister is about to move to Spain and the amount of paperwork she has had to do is mind-boggling. She still won't have permanent residence

In the short term only growstuff.
Once she applies for her TIE card with her documents at the police station it takes about 90 days and that ensures residency.
In the meantime it’s a GHIC card & a passport at the local health centre.

Sorry if I’m being dim here.
What is so expensive and why?
I don’t get it.

I’m assuming she’s retirement age.

Yes, 2021, sorry.

EHIC or GHIC will only cover for emergency costs- no long term, no repatriation. So totally unsuitable for residents in Spain or EU, and even for holiday makers- unless they have large sums of savings to pay if longterm is required and repatriation (which can costs HUGE sums).Check all the smallprint for your private insurance, things may well have changed since Jan 2021. Those over 70 and with pre-exisiting conditions will find it almost, and possibly totally, unable to be insured now.

Brexit has already cost us £16 billion yes £16,000,000,000 in trade in goods.

Is that what Leave voters voted for?

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-uks-trade-cost-16-billion-referendum-centre-for-european-reform-b934808.html

Actually quite small compared to

'Brexit hit: City of London suffers £2.3 trillion derivatives loss in a single month'

Just diabolical for the country.

Urmstongran

^My sister is about to move to Spain and the amount of paperwork she has had to do is mind-boggling. She still won't have permanent residence^

In the short term only growstuff.
Once she applies for her TIE card with her documents at the police station it takes about 90 days and that ensures residency.
In the meantime it’s a GHIC card & a passport at the local health centre.

Sorry if I’m being dim here.
What is so expensive and why?
I don’t get it.

I’m assuming she’s retirement age.

No, neither my sister or her husband are retirement age.

And, sorry, but you are being dim (you said it).

Sorry growstuff. I can only relate about my sister’s circs. I have no knowledge post Brexit of those who choose to emigrate to Spain to live and work. Some friends of ours moved lock stock & barrel to open a bar in Benalmadena. Both aged 60y. But that was 18 months ago. Pre-Brexit and pre-pandemic. That said, they are doing okay but time will tell.

I imagine your sister, post Brexit, weighed up the pros and cons when making her choice? I think you said healthcare was expensive but affordable for them. It will have been one of the factors she took into consideration.

Someone I know aged 66y who has lived in Spain (as a resident) for 20 years chose private health insurance as her ‘peace of mind’. She has severe asthma and some degree of osteoporosis. She told me last summer, she pays €110 per month and it covers everything. Regular check ups, bone scans, blood tests, surgery when needed etc. If I lived there permanently I think it’s what I would do as well.

People made plans carefully for years and years- planning on the facts as they had then. Bought a property, spent all their holidays and money doing it up - for when they could retire. They could never ever imagine THIS would happen- and all they had so carefully planned and worked so hard for, would be taken away from them.

Very easy to take private insurance when you are 46 and healthy. Try again when you are over 65 and with pre-exisiting conditions. Your comments are either terribly naive, or just cruel and nasty.

We bought in Spain nearly 17y ago and retired nearly 7y ago to split our time between our 2 small places. We voted for Brexit. We live in the UK and pay our taxes here.

I still can’t see what has gone wrong post Brexit for property owners. I know plenty who reside in Spain permanently. I’ve not heard a peep out of any of them about Brexit affecting their lives.

Those who plan to move there since 1 January 2021 need to do their homework. Different circs will dictate their choices.

You remind me of someone Kali2
??
Same old arguments ...

Many of us feel that way I am afraid. So yes, those who have settled before 2021 are ok. But there are many who have made plans and worked hard to move when they retire- and just won't be able to do so now. Did you ever plan to move to Spain and become resident? This is not the impression you give.

Nope.
Happy to live in the UK. Himself always said he didn’t want to be a full time Spaniard.

But Kali2 you made out just now that people have bought houses, done them up, etc so that must have been pre Brexit. I can’t see what their problem is now. No-one I know seems upset.

As in ‘why would it be taken away from them’? You lose me there.

Not quite sure is your question is genuine.

Yes, many bought houses many years before they retired, which they used as holiday homes, and spent all their holidays and savings doing up, improving, etc, IN PREPARATION for retirement. And the planning and all the hard work was based on being part of the EU, re health care, permits, car licences, and so much more. And now, coming up to retirement, find that all the goal posts have been moved, big time. Surely that is not hard to fathom. Those you say are 'not upset' moved before 1.01.21.

That means your friends who settled there before 01.10.21 are still able to use health insurance cover based on Form S1 - no longer available for new emigrants. They also can use the NHS in UK- which is no longer the case for new emigrants. And have no issues with permits, residence, visas, banks, etc.

Yet this I just found on the French government website states

“The trade and cooperation agreement, which applies from January 1st, 2021, contains similar provisions on health care coverage for pensioners to those which currently apply under the European social security coordination regulations. These new provisions apply to circumstances beginning after January 1st, 2021.

Important: Like all non-EU citizens, UK citizens moving to France on or after January 1st, 2021, must be issued with a residency permit (“titre de séjour”) (http://accueil-etrangers.gouv.fr/demande-de-titre-de-sejour/).”

So again, I fail to grasp what the problem might be for your friends/people you know?

I do not believe for one moment that retirees will henceforth stop moving to Europe for their retirement if they so choose.

So it doesn’t bother you that you’ve enjoyed 17 years of having a property in Spain and now that you’re happy to not have one there it doesn’t matter that it will be more difficult for other people to do the same thing? Because it won’t affect you.

So ... ‘similar conditions to those that already exist’.
And apply to circs after January 1st, 2021.

I reiterate. I don’t see what the problem is here.
Apply for residency.
Wait a while.
Use the French/Spanish health system.
Or top up with private healthcare (but this is a choice, it is not essential).

I have a headache.
I need to lie down!

I am keeping my property in Spain MayBee. We will pop over as and when allowed (90 days in every 180).
I’m not pulling up any drawbridges here!

Urmstongran

Yet this I just found on the French government website states

“The trade and cooperation agreement, which applies from January 1st, 2021, contains similar provisions on health care coverage for pensioners to those which currently apply under the European social security coordination regulations. These new provisions apply to circumstances beginning after January 1st, 2021.

Important: Like all non-EU citizens, UK citizens moving to France on or after January 1st, 2021, must be issued with a residency permit (“titre de séjour”) (http://accueil-etrangers.gouv.fr/demande-de-titre-de-sejour/).”

So again, I fail to grasp what the problem might be for your friends/people you know?

I do not believe for one moment that retirees will henceforth stop moving to Europe for their retirement if they so choose.

This seems to clarify & settle the matter ‼️
A storm in a teacup.

There are currently many 100s of people in France and other EU countries who are unable to swap their UK licence. Their UK licencewas valid until it expired and now they just cant swap. Many are older, or have families and kids that need to get to school, or GP, work, etc- and who can no longer drive and there is no public transport.

Many retirees who are unable to get health cover, and who would have been covered by S1 had they arrived before 01.01.21. I am sorry, but you have no idea of the realities or what you are talking about.

The UK has no agreement currently about swapping driving licences with France, Spain or Italy. So elderly people now find the only thing they can do is to retake licence if full, both theory and practical, and also First Aid, in the local language.

in full

You seem determined to take a negative view for sure Kali2!

Did you read the 2 paragraphs from the French website I found for you?

Yes driving licences can be problematic but not insurmountable! My sister’s husband’s UK driving licence expired. He has to sort out a Spanish one, take a test. But a driver is always a driver! It will sort for him (and others).

You seem to want to take up the cudgels here when there is no need. It’s a though you are on a mission to decry Brexit as though it is making life impossible for ex pats or new emigres. It is not the case.

We shall, in the spirit of ‘entente cordiale’ just have to agree to disagree on this topic. Bon chance.