Israel has just destroyed an international media centre in Gaza, home for many different media companies. They have also targetted refugee centres, killing families and destroying homes. There has been no international condemnation. The UK government hasn't said anything. What use is International law?
worth watching
fb.watch/5wEAxyCOzG/
Clearly then the relationship between Israel and its neighbours were nowhere near normal after 1949 and tensions continued.
Israel had various skirmishes with its neighbours, always over land.
Egypt has closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and this eventually erupted into the 3 day war June 1967.
Israel almost completely destroyed the Egyptian airforce.
What would you do if it was your country being attacked by terrorists?
Israel has always made it quite clear that an attack by terrorists will be countered by reprisals from Israel.
How does this differ from what the British did in Ulster in the 1970s?
Hamas are on the international list of terrorists - this seems to have escaped the notice of just about every supporter of the Palestinians.
Support whom you like, but acknowledge that every state in the world has the right to take measures to support its own citizens and sovereignty.
Israel was able to do so because of its efficient and rapid development of an arms industry, that had its roots in secret development. during the 1930s.
Most of the land the original Jewish settlers in what is now Israel settled was bought by them from the Arabs or Turks who owned that land - and paid for.
It has not been stolen from anyone but bought and sold as land has been for ages.
If you want to talk of theft, try remembering that practically from A.D. 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the forefathers of the Palestinian Arabs were allowed to settle in Jerusalem, but Jews were denied even the right to visit the place, by both the Turkish or Saracen rulers and the Christian rulers.
grandtanteJE65
Most of the land the original Jewish settlers in what is now Israel settled was bought by them from the Arabs or Turks who owned that land - and paid for.
It has not been stolen from anyone but bought and sold as land has been for ages.
If you want to talk of theft, try remembering that practically from A.D. 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the forefathers of the Palestinian Arabs were allowed to settle in Jerusalem, but Jews were denied even the right to visit the place, by both the Turkish or Saracen rulers and the Christian rulers.
I think that we have established that is what happened regarding the land holding in Palestine.
What is the point at issue is the partition, and what has flowed from that.
Israeli stating that if he doesn't steal the Palestinian's woman's house, another Israeli will. It's hardly selling.
www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/4/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone-else-will-jewish-settler-says
My opinion is that the original partition stood a chance, provided both sides could be persuaded to recognise each other’s right to exist, and that Israel had not adopted an expansionist policy into Palestinian land.
But we are where we are now, and imo the world which has been so instrumental in the entire miserable episode can’t sit back and do nothing when innocents are being killed and maimed on both sides.
I agree WWM, so do a lot of people I know IRL and not just lefties either.
Problem is, the US won't intervene. If it was going to, it would be now, under Biden but he's already shown his colours in relation to this. And the current UK gov certainly won't.
I thought I saw on Andrew Marr this morning that POTUS has / is sending someone out to negotiate John Kerry (?), apologies I was not fully concentrating.
Whitewavemark2- my thoughts too.
Yes, he arrived there yesterday. But I honestly am not sure that Biden intends to pursue this issue very far. His focus is more on domestic issues and the Far East.
We can live in hope.
The US shouldn’t ( physically) intervene and neither should we ( or anyone else.)
The US can only try and use talks with the Israeli government,
And even that has it’s limits.
HAMAS is a real problem for the Palestinians, not their protector, although I understand how they must feel.
The best solution would be if HAMAS disbanded and Israel stopped hawkish behaviour about removing Palestinian homes where they have lived for generations and building in the West Bank and both sides stopped marches and celebrations which inflame the other. Hard to see it happening though.
My opinion is that the original partition stood a chance, provided both sides could be persuaded to recognise each other’s right to exist
Yes. But Hamas and Hezbollah have never recognised Israel's right to exist.
grandtanteJE65
Most of the land the original Jewish settlers in what is now Israel settled was bought by them from the Arabs or Turks who owned that land - and paid for.
It has not been stolen from anyone but bought and sold as land has been for ages.
If you want to talk of theft, try remembering that practically from A.D. 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, the forefathers of the Palestinian Arabs were allowed to settle in Jerusalem, but Jews were denied even the right to visit the place, by both the Turkish or Saracen rulers and the Christian rulers.
What about land in the West Bank?
Baggs
^My opinion is that the original partition stood a chance, provided both sides could be persuaded to recognise each other’s right to exist^
Yes. But Hamas and Hezbollah have never recognised Israel's right to exist.
They have only been in existence since the 80s.
Whitewavemark2
Baggs
My opinion is that the original partition stood a chance, provided both sides could be persuaded to recognise each other’s right to exist
Yes. But Hamas and Hezbollah have never recognised Israel's right to exist.They have only been in existence since the 80s.
... and became what they are because of ... Israeli taking more and more land, destructions, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, burning of plantations, olives, almonds, etc.
Hamas and Hezbollah didn't just appear out of nowhere for no reason.
We had Jewish friends over on Friday- they were in tears, of shame, anger and despair. Their adult children are still in Israel and all in the process of moving away, to US, UK and Europe.
They are Jews, and not antisemitic!
If you want to get some idea of the relationship between the Israeli government and the Palestinian authorities I would recommend that you look at the Amnesty report for 2020.
It is a history it forced evictions, transfers and demolitions, along with discrimination against the Palestinians.
The Israeli police force are accused of unlawful killings and excessive use of force.
The Israeli government restricts the freedom of movement by its illegal blockade by land sea and air.
Israel arbitrarily detain hundreds of palestinians, and where they are tried the military courts do not meet international standards for fairness.
Torture is used on children and adults with impunity. Medical help is denied.
Israel deny human right authorities entry to to the OPT, and freedom of expression.
Gender based violence is used as a form of control.
Any Israeli citizen refusing military service for reasons of conscientious objection is imprisoned
When Orthodox Jews are demonstrating in both London and US, saying the Israeli govt is wrong, that should educate the rest of the world.
Groups of Orthodox Jews in Israel said the same thing.
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-rocket-fire-israeli-strikes-gaza-run-into-second-day-2021-05-11/ Hamas must take the blame for this.
There is a video on Twitter showing cars driving through Golders Green and parking up outside the Jewish Centre...
These cars are draped with Hamas flags and the occupants are shouting f**k the Jews and rape their daughters.
No metropolitan police in sight, surely this counts as a hate crime ?
Sorry couldn’t do a link but this is a screen grab
(Apologies for graphic language, but I thought it was relevant to this thread)
Look at the map posted by Gagajo and other posts about the history of the conflict. What are the Palestinians supposed to do? They have no other way, and violence begets violence.
What are they supposed to do?
This is such a sad, frustrating topic.
I can only add that part of the reason for USA and UK, plus other western nations, support Israel because she is the only democratic country in the ME who will protect their interests in the area, still feared by them.
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