Brexit, Polls have turned, not just one, but all of them, but one

If the person who signed up to the protocol and claimed it as a triumph now says he underestimated its effect on the movement of goods between GB and NI then there are only two possibilities - he is dense or he lied. Take your pick.

If you agree to sign a contract on a house, knowing full well it has a rotten roof and heating system- then don't go complaining to the seller afterwards. Because the seller warned them, all the experts warned them. In this case the analogy does not even work, as you can fix a rotten roof and heating- this will be almost impossible to fix, as there is no solution.

And you can't fix stupidity and incompetence.

Ollie Robbins was very well regarded by the EU - he was very clever, hard working and had manners. Frost on the other hand is not - there is now the opinion that he has little knowledge or understanding about Ireland - the history or the wider implications of the NI protocol.
I have seen reports that President Biden intends to speak to Johnson about the situation in Ireland and a warning to do nothing to upset the Good Friday Agreement. That agreement was extremely hard won and took a lot of compromise and goodwill on all sides. To cause it to fail now would be an absolute tragedy for everyone in both North and Southern Ireland.

Urmstongran

Morning everyone.

Soon when Merkle, Macron and VDL have all been replaced common sense will hopefully prevail. It’s still early days in the transition folks! We’ve not even had 6 months yet. Just been reading about the ‘sausage war’!

We are not 'in transition'. The transition period started when May sent notice of the UK invoking A 50 to he EU. It was meant to be a period of 2 years but was extended a couple of times. That was when the UK was meant to be preparing for our final exit. That was when the EU member states did their preparations; they were ready at the end of the first transition period. All the UK did was fight among themselves because none of the Brexiters had an exit plan and they couldn't agree on one between themselves.

There was absolutely no need for our final cut off to be Dec 2020, in the middle of a global pandemic, we could have asked for another extension. It was all just to pander to Johnson's vast vanity project of being the PM who 'got Brexit done'.

Well, he 'got it done' and he got it done really badly. We're not 'in transition' any more, we're in it; we've left, we're a third country. This is it and our chances of renegotiating the bits of a crap binding treaty, that our useless negotiator agreed to because he's utterly useless and didn't have a clue about what effect it was going to have on businesses, or how the NI protocol was going to affect NI, are virtually nil.

How you have the nerve to rewrite history after the great jubilation about the best deal ever 18 months ago is aweinspiringly breathtaking and lots of words that would get me banned.

Johnson and Frost knew the Deal was very badly formulated and would lead to all sorts of problems true Kali2 but can you imagine the howls of protest if he’d decided on ‘No Deal’? A rock and a hard place comes to mind.

WTO would be better than this ‘close regulatory alignment’. Not worth it in my opinion.

vegansrock

urmstongran Frost claims he didn’t know the problems the NI protocol he signed off on would cause - if that’s not being dense when everyone with half a brain could see it would cause problems - I don’t know what is.

I agree vegansrock. The government were being told by all sides what the outcome of this would be. Either you are fit to govern or those governing should resign. If Frost didn't know the problems the NI Protocol would cause he should not have been in government. If he did - which we have every reason to believe is true - and allowed us to get into this position then he, and those that employed him in this position should not be in government.

In law, you do not get special treatment because you are you, whether that is a person or a country. This government knew it was a bad deal but signed it to "get Brexit done". We are now legally obliged to face the consequences of what this government has done.

We have been conned as a country. The country has to back those who voted to put these people into government and this case and makes me and others who warn of this equally liable for those who scammed enough people in the right places to keep them in government.

What the rest of us do not have to do is like it or not can others tell us not to expect this government to pay for the scam.

MawBe

Watched 3 different TV news to see it again ?

I find this truly appalling. Would you have done the same is someone had slapped Mrs May. I certainly feel like punching Johnson in the nose, and a few others too- but I would never sink to low and resort to cheap violence. Nasty and stupid- and to support is beyond the beyond, truly.

A pro EU friend posted this yesterday (permission sought) and he is spot on:

''"On Monday, the UK's Brexit Minister Lord Frost admitted the UK had "underestimated" the effect of the protocol on goods movements to Northern Ireland."
They overestimated their own capacity to estimate anything. An average 8-year old would've seen it after less than two and a half minutes of explanation. But, of course, they couldn't find an 8-year old stupid enough to have anything to do with Brexit.
In an article in the Financial Times, he (David Frost) accused the EU of "legal purism" and called for "pragmatic solutions between friends, not the imposition of one side's rules on the other"
"LEGAL PURISM"? No kidding. How about legal text improvisation? Variations on agreements changing everything as you feel without any need to get any agreement? So no agreement, no chance of a disagreement. Brilliant. Except for legal professionals that would turn in their graves even if not dead.''

Johnson and Frost knew the Deal was very badly formulated and would lead to all sorts of problems- but Johnson just said 'just sign and we will wing it later and get the EU to give in'- or words to that effect.

And now they, and some of you, want to blame the EU, and slap Macron too. WOW.

Urmstongran

The EU people like Coveney and Sefovic are being disingenuous in saying "this is the Brexit the UK chose" etc.

Boris had to make a choice between No Deal and giving the NI Protocol a go. He chose the latter.

It's not working.

So either the protocol changes or we're back to no deal.
Hopefully.

Boris had to make a choice between No Deal and giving the NI Protocol a go. He chose the latter.

If you enter a contract don't you expect to keep it? Or do you do all you can to illegally breach it? These are not people of very little intelligence or are you suggesting that is the case and we should, as a country, be treated like those with special needs?

Johnson had the power to make that contract. He either knew what he was doing or had people who could explain the law to them. Why do you think we, as a country, should be treated differently under the law, to other countries? This really suggests Johnson is infantile in his approach to being our Prime Minister.

Urmstongran

Morning everyone.

Soon when Merkle, Macron and VDL have all been replaced common sense will hopefully prevail. It’s still early days in the transition folks! We’ve not even had 6 months yet. Just been reading about the ‘sausage war’!

You see life being lived in such a petty way Urmstongran. I wonder where that comes from?

Those in office in the EU and the countries of the EU are just suggesting we stick to the agreements those in office in our country made. Why would we not have to work to those agreements that were cheered by the very people now expecting to break them?

Jefferson@jefferson_MFG is worth taking a look at as it details all the new manufacturing enterprises in the U.K. Shame the MSM are not broadcasting this?

The EU people like Coveney and Sefovic are being disingenuous in saying "this is the Brexit the UK chose" etc.

Boris had to make a choice between No Deal and giving the NI Protocol a go. He chose the latter.

It's not working.

So either the protocol changes or we're back to no deal.
Hopefully.

Tear up the WA when it was trumpeted as the best thing since sliced bread and a triumph - it’s the most laughable U turn , show that the government are indeed a bunch of chancers.

urmstongran Frost claims he didn’t know the problems the NI protocol he signed off on would cause - if that’s not being dense when everyone with half a brain could see it would cause problems - I don’t know what is.

It's sausages this week, then the EU will think of some other commodity made in mainland UK that we have historically supplied to NI, and make difficulties about that. And so ad infinitum. So there's a choice: we grin and bear it or we announce that we will tear up the WA unless there's serious and immediate renegotiation.

Thank you for the explanation 're the sausages post @ 00.30 MaisieD, I'd not seen the news so hadn't been aware. There really was no need for your smart arsed comment at the end of your post though, but I accept that you don't seem to be able to help yourself.

Lord Frost cannot, under any circs by described as ‘dense’ vegansrock! He inherited the bundle from Ollie Robbins remember? It is difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. David Frost is very highly regarded. Even Barnier admired his negotiating skills! He is known as ‘the details man the details men go to’. I wish now we’d gone WTO.

It was a man.

Although if you think it was a woman, I'm sure that's Your Truth UG.

What’s a woman giving a slap to Macron got to do with anything? If I got close to Johnson I’d do the same or maybe a cup of coffee would be better. Frost is just as dense as all the others. Johnson’s treaty was worse than May’s for NI.

Watched 3 different TV news to see it again ?

Is this the spot to laugh at Macron getting a slap yesterday by a woman in the crowd when he walked over to get them?

If only we'd had Lord Frost from the start of the Brexit negotiations instead of Theresa May and her army of Remainer chums.

U.k. signs treaty to become 3rd country it’s “what we voted for”, it’s” oven ready”
U.K. moans because they are being treated as 3rd country and claim “they are punishing us for leaving”
Now U.K. do not want to adhere to the treaty they wanted and signed saying “common sense must prevail” and blaming EU for not showing “common sense”
Which of these parties showed no common sense in the first place? Who pushed for the treaty to “get Brexit done”?

Morning everyone.

Soon when Merkle, Macron and VDL have all been replaced common sense will hopefully prevail. It’s still early days in the transition folks! We’ve not even had 6 months yet. Just been reading about the ‘sausage war’!

“Frost and the Government are now saying this is not the Brexit they thought it would be, and blame the EU for insisting that what they negotiated and signed up to should be adhered to”

It’s far worse than I thought then, the object of negotiating an agreement is to stick to the terms, not try to wriggle out of any deal. Totally clueless!.

Now can you tell me what RW stands for please?