Protest section 4 Police Bill.

In rural areas illegal activity by travellers is a big issue, almost every business and a lot of private houses have had breakins. It’s nothing at all to do with racism or ethnic cleansing, it’s the cost replacing property lost and repairing damage done.

The police know exactly who is responsible, proscecuting them is very difficult because the traveler community will not give the police any information. A carpenter friend had his workshop raided, loosing around £5000 worth of tools, security cameras recorded the vehicle registration. That was stolen, next day that was found at the traveller site, nobody knew who owned it, but of course everybody had had a good look at it.
Result vehicle retrieved, no tools, no prosecution, this is what the police are up against, the whole community operate together and are complicit in crime.

The solution is to allow travellers to follow their lifestyle but only on properly regulated sites, we do actually have one council run site with a warden, that is not a problem. Of course the criminals don’t want to stay there.

How is telling a person from a particular ethnic background that they should educate "their people" not racist?

Like I said, you don't even know you're doing it,

Having experienced the best and the worst from the traveler community I really don’t know where I stand.

You beat me to it MerylStreep I was a post similar.

There are good and bad in all communities.

An example of Travellers making a positive contribution:
www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2021/05/rosie-amazing-coloured-pony-raises-10k-nhs

I was picture editor on this magazine, some years ago now.

It's a very complex situation.
Until society is educated so as not to fear us, and we are educated not to fear non travellers nothing will improve.
Of course some people leave a mess and I don't condone it for any minute.
However, we didn't see people fined for messing up the beaches, or them having the threat of losing their home. In fact, nothing was done.
The neighbours of those responsible weren't threatened with a law to make living in a house a crime.
It's absolutely unimaginable when you make such comparisons.
I have no idea who those people are anymore than I know which travellers leave a mess.
I do know the majority just want a permanant site to call home so their children can have a decent education and the only space available being a transit site.
There are thousands on waiting lists the same as many non travellers waiting for council houses.
The last ethnic cleansing (and it was) were the hundreds evicted from the forests, land given to us by Royalty. We were promised sites and then central gov passed the buck to local gov who in the main refused to make provision.
My parents lived in the forest and after eviction moved northwards to Cheshire, where I was born.

Long before Captain Tom and all the other fund raisers a little traveller girl raised 31k for organising a countrywide pieinyourface. It was one of those nomination fb campaigns, everyone joined in.

Also, the traveller boodbank challenge where every year we fill an extra trolley of food to donate to the food bank, most of us do this, too. You take your photo upload to fb and challenge 4 members of your family.

Just info how we belong in wider society.

romaroot
By your username I guess you are Romany descent, it not the romanies that cause the problems, nor is it travellers that have a horse drawn barrel wagon and a few ponies, they just get on with their way of life without bothering anyone.

I’m surprised you say all they want is a permanent home, they can go on the housing list like anyone else if they want to settle and some do just that. Its the closed sites that are used as a cover for illegal activity that need stopping

I really am flabbergasted.

Is that you Lee Anderson?

We can all agree there are good and bad people on both sides. Criminals, fly tippers and litter louts are scumbags whatever their race, so no this is not about racism as some people have been so quick to shout.
romaroot said Until society is educated so as not to fear us, and we are educated not to fear non travellers nothing will improve.
But the criminal travellers by their actions have been educating communities to fear them, so how can these communities learn to trust people they know will rob and steal from them?

Chestnut

We can all agree there are good and bad people on both sides. Criminals, fly tippers and litter louts are scumbags whatever their race, so no this is not about racism as some people have been so quick to shout.
romaroot said Until society is educated so as not to fear us, and we are educated not to fear non travellers nothing will improve.
But the criminal travellers by their actions have been educating communities to fear them, so how can these communities learn to trust people they know will rob and steal from them?

I don't know any travellers who have committed these crimes.
I'm obviously not saying it doesn't exist.
As it does in all communities.
But once again should two distinct races have to pay the price for others wrong doing. Should all white people be treated like criminals because some of them are.
This is nothing but racism, please open your eyes.

Katie59

In rural areas illegal activity by travellers is a big issue, almost every business and a lot of private houses have had breakins. It’s nothing at all to do with racism or ethnic cleansing, it’s the cost replacing property lost and repairing damage done.

The police know exactly who is responsible, proscecuting them is very difficult because the traveler community will not give the police any information. A carpenter friend had his workshop raided, loosing around £5000 worth of tools, security cameras recorded the vehicle registration. That was stolen, next day that was found at the traveller site, nobody knew who owned it, but of course everybody had had a good look at it.
Result vehicle retrieved, no tools, no prosecution, this is what the police are up against, the whole community operate together and are complicit in crime.

The solution is to allow travellers to follow their lifestyle but only on properly regulated sites, we do actually have one council run site with a warden, that is not a problem. Of course the criminals don’t want to stay there.

Yes, good post.We live in a rural area that has seen crime from certain travellers skyrocket over the years.Local police know how hard it is to go into sites for arrests.Only fairly recently a young local policeman was dragged to his awful death behind a car driven at high speeds by traveller teenagers out stealing quad bikes who didn’t care what was happening as long as they got away.
We know that many sites house slave labour, usually men with learning difficulties or homeless, as they are sometimes ‘busted’ by police.
I don’t think there is racism, as they are the same race as us in the main.

Unfortunately when the caravans pull up the locals have no idea which travelling community has arrived or whether they are criminals or not. People living in houses are normally surrounded by the same residents, they don't get a large number of new people arriving all at the same time. The arrival of a large group of caravans can seem threatening if the intentions of the travellers is not known.

And so it continues.
Police need to take action against criminals whatever race they belong to.
This was proven with the murder of PC Harper, Police certainly intervened then, as they should. Why they won't act to prosecute the mess makers I don't know.

I take your point Chestnut but if the person across the street from you was a criminal should we assume you are the same, after all, you live in a house. Should I fear that you are a criminal too.

I would love to take my grandchild (when a little older) on our ancestors route, stopping at the same/ similar places. Visiting the graves in so many little country churches across England and Wales.
I daren't for fear of racial attack, the awful things painted on our vans and waggons, some very old vehicles. Our horses scared by idiots on the road shouting obscenities and peeping their horns.
Our vans set on fire whilst people are in them.
Yet travellers are supposed to be the problem.
I hope the Human Rights Act will be able to come into play here, especially article 8, but others too.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Breathtaking ignorance.

Reported.

Romaroot Absolutely agree the Police need to charge criminals whoever they are. If only they did.
if the person across the street from you was a criminal should we assume you are the same, after all, you live in a house. Should I fear that you are a criminal too.
People living in houses tend to be individuals and not part of a community with shared ethnicity and values. Any house might have a criminal living there, but they are mostly a single dwelling and not connected to nearby houses.

The terrible treatment you mention is because there are lowlife scumbags in all communities, and they are the real problem, whether travellers or non-travellers. If only all people would show respect to others, but those kind never will.

Travelling your ancestral route sounds lovely! I have done the same thing in various parts of the country, so I hope you can find a way to take your family one day. I'm sure you will manage, even if it means travelling by car. Where there's a will there's a way.

Alegrias1

Breathtaking ignorance.

Reported.

As usual you come on a thread simply to express shock horror at things other people say instead of contributing anything to the thread. You seem to spend your life being outraged on behalf of other people. ?

And yet, I'm not the one being deleted.....

Alegrias1

And yet, I'm not the one being deleted.....

No, you're the one stifling free discussion by reporting comments.

I believe the point of racism needs to be put across to society in general, and that's the hard part.
Tarring whole races as criminals or a problem is racist, surely?
If we remove the word traveller and add any other ethnic minority there would be an uproar and rightly so. But, for travellers it's accepted and encouraged by society. Counsellors and politicians are showing their true colours as usual and anti gypsyism is the last form of accpted racism.
Remember those No signs in the 60's No Blacks, Irish, gypsies, there's only Irish travellers and Romany who are still refused entry to many establishments.
The most recent were Morrisons, the poor girl I felt sorry for, she was following orders. Weatherspoons and Pontins. The media including C4 dispatches, they fuel the hatred.

I know this was huge propaganda of it's time but look at the difference between acceptance then and now.
This clip are my family, and I was told by a non gypsy that all the schools in the area were given the day off.
Hope it's informative. Can you hear the Yorkshire accent?

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=weddin+on+yorkshire+moors

Katie59

Anyone who has lived next to a traveler site has no sympathy towards them, we have 3 in a 10 mile radius, all the rural properties have electric gates and ditches to prevent breakins.
All these sites are “no go” areas for the police, if they do have to enter it is with an armed response unit. Then they can retrieve property previously stolen, surprise surprise nobody knows or have seen anything. Their culture is based on thieving, otherwise why would the isolate themselves in that way, other minorities don’t live in that way. The problems have got worse in the last 10 yrs because the Irish government clamped down on traveller activity and they moved over here.

It’s not the travelling lifestyle that is the problem, if they lived in open sites and stopped thieving there would be no issue.

Katy, I'm sorry but I have to ask, who are they?
My culture isn't based on thieving, I've never stolen anything in my life. Nor have any of my family who all live on sites.
One side of my family managed to buy land in the 60's before local government saw refusal of site provision as more voters.
If we try to do this now there is so much local opposition it's usually refused, even with the same plans previously accepted by non gypsy land purchasers.
There is nowhere for us to go, and this Bill will see many more thousands homeless. I'm lucky and don't have small children anymore, but I'm so worried for those facing this with small children. No doubt they'll be taken into care.

youtu.be/JfG7uwm-HM0

Chestnut

Alegrias1

And yet, I'm not the one being deleted.....

No, you're the one stifling free discussion by reporting comments.

The cry of the racist everywhere; we were just having a free and frank discussion.

This thread is riven with racism. It crossed a line when someone questioned if a poster knew their own race and then proceeded to tell them how to organise their life to fit in better with what was acceptable to them. Oh, and how prejudice was justified.

I rarely report and I tell people when I do. There seems to be some misconception that GNHQ automatically delete things that people report. Well they don't. They delete things that are so obnoxiously rude and abusive that leaving them on the site would get GNHQ closed down.