Brexit is fast becoming a disaster

No GG13, that's not going to wash.

If you are trying to suggest the Labour party did for the coal industry, and not Thatcher, you're on a hiding to nothing.

Conservatives closed 160 mines
Labour closed 290 mines.

I have no idea how anyone, living in the ex-coal mining areas, and either living through or knowing the history of the closures could ever vote Conservative in the future.

Johnson's suggestion that Margaret Thatcher gave the United Kingdom a "big early start" in the battle against climate change by closing so many of the country's coal mines is just wicked.

Sadly, some votes will be gained by these lies. I am beginning to wonder how anyone will ever trust an English man or woman's word again.

I remember those threads Kali2, all those questions as to where you lived. Very nasty.

GillT57

Well, as one of the many on here who was told that I had lost, get over it, was told to be positive, told to wait, told I was unpatriotic etc., etc., I am still fizzing with anger at the mess we are finding this country in. Covid19 has been a convenient cover for the disaster that is Brexit, and it is becoming apparent by the booming silence from the previously vociferous Brexit camp.

Count yourself lucky you were never told that you had no right to say what you had to say, and that it was none of your business. Lucky you.

This wasn't an off the cuff, said in the heat of the moment thing when being pressured by a journalist, it was a planned, prepared, tweet. Obviously with the intention of damning Starmer, but an impressive backfire. I won't hold my breath on anyone on BBC asking him about it though.

Actually, he hasn't lost the plot has he. After all, lies win votes.

75,000 green jobs have been lost under the Conservatives.

Boris Johnson’s green revolution plans are in hot water as damaging figures reveal more than 75,000 green jobs have been lost under the Tories five-year reign.

ONS figures cited by Labour show a loss of 33,800 direct jobs and a further 41,000 jobs in the supply chain for the low carbon and renewable sectors between 2014 and 2019.

The sectors which experienced the sharp losses include solar power, onshore wind, renewable electricity and energy efficiency.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-calls-climate-action-24689883

I saw this. I think he's just lost the plot. It was very weird.

Remember Steve Baker? Architect of Brexit? Today's tweet from him;

Keir Starmer's comments about NetZero remind us that he's part of the policy making elite who have decided to make us poorer and colder

Politicians need to level with the public about the scale of change in our lives so we don't have another political fiasco like Brexit.

Well, as one of the many on here who was told that I had lost, get over it, was told to be positive, told to wait, told I was unpatriotic etc., etc., I am still fizzing with anger at the mess we are finding this country in. Covid19 has been a convenient cover for the disaster that is Brexit, and it is becoming apparent by the booming silence from the previously vociferous Brexit camp.

A poll (Ipsos MORI), yesterday looked at Government performance versus expectation. In answer to the question on taking us out of the EU, participants rated the Government, in Dec 2019, on how well they were likely to do. Those polled voted 81% likely to do a good job and 12% unlikely to do a good job. (7% "don't know).

In July 2021, participants were asked about the Government's actual performance in taking us out of the EU. In this poll, 38% voted that the Government had done "a good job" and 38% that they had done "a bad job". (24% don't know)

Some think they can talk (shout, insult) those who did not want to leave into thinking they were wrong. It appears these intransigent leavers have a big job on their hands. Currently the voters, including a good percentage of those who voted to leave, now either think this has been done badly or have not yet made up their mind and could go either way.

Everyone I know who is involved in hospitality is desperate for qualified staff, my DD and SiL spent 3 days at a rather nice hotel in Derbyshire a fortnight ago, staff running ragged and apologising as they did so, restaurants around here are opening evenings only or doing limited lunchtime service. Anyone whose experience is otherwise is either extremely lucky or has their head in the sand. Our local co-op has no fish ( locally caught, frozen, then delivered) at all, and hasn't for the past week, likewise very little choice of salad stuff. Freezer cabinets only a third full. Ok, we are not starving to death, but we no longer have the choice we did. Maybe one of the Brexit Pollyannas will come along and tell me to embrace local produce; we do, it isn't there.

MaizieD

Jaxjacky

Another issue now, ESTA type payment for EU entry.
inews.co.uk/news/brexit/uk-travel-europe-charge-next-year-2022-post-brexit-new-eu-rules-1133467

OMG!

I've just seen this clip from Jeremy Vine.

What bit of 'The UK is now a third country and must follow the EU's third country rules' is so hard for the idiotic Brexit voting woman to understand?

twitter.com/JeremyVineOn5/status/1422860567560196099

Here arguments are certainly idiotic. I'm afraid she rarely talks any sense. She is a very silly and unknowledgeable woman; one of those, I'm afraid, who think their unfounded opinion is equal to a truth.

Most of us who have lived in Europe have no recollection of ever seeing poppies for sale there
When I lived in France, poppies were always sold at Carcassonne airport.

Hardly an axe?. He is a remainer just like yourself. So I suppose you could say all remainers have an axe to grind.

I don't agree with everything that is said by "remainers like me" any more than I agree with everything said by everyone who voted Yes in the Scottish Independence referendum, or who voted for Bill Bailey to win Strictly last year

I think some of what Mr Murphy writes is politically motivated and inflammatory. In my view.

No it isn’t and the further into the mire we get the louder the argument will become.

eazybee

It would have been very different if the remainers hadn't spent three years trying to overturn a democratic vote; there would have been three years to sort agreements and arrangements out before covid struck.
As it is, Brexit has been in existence for six months.

Which democratic vote was that eazybee? If people had believed it was "democratic", they wouldn't be trying to overturn it even it if wasn't what they wanted.

The phrase "Democracy depends on the consent of the loser" shows the necessity of democracy. Until recently, we have pretty much accepted that. We now have a better-educated population as a whole and we all know more about democracy. Because of that, we have people not agreeing that FPTP is a democratic system for elections. We also have many who see the referendum as undemocratic. The "loser" will not agree to consent to a vote if they believe it is undemocratic.

This argument is not going to go away.

Alegrias1

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57924264

I think Mr Burnett has an axe to grind.

Murphy was commenting on the RHA report.

Hardly an axe?. He is a remainer just like yourself. So I suppose you could say all remainers have an axe to grind.

Not Mr Burnett, Mr Murphy.

Oh, I give up.

Sorry - posted too soon.

There are other examoples.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57912922

www.bbc.co.uk/news/57810729

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57924264

I think Mr Burnett has an axe to grind.

Thank you for that.

I was searching all the news programmes.

I do listen to O’Connell but must have missed that.

I think the point Murphy was making was that given the apparent seriousness of the issue, plus the fact that the BBC has information relating to the issue, it should have been broadcast on the main news on BBC..
I agree.

Whitewavemark2

Alegrias1

I'm not an economist, so can't debate Keynes. But I do find Murphy to have extreme views and the fact he thinks interviews aren't being broadcast on the BBC (when they actually are) because they show the government in a bad light only strengthens my opinion.

So which economist would you say was not extreme? I find your comment quite interesting

I know next to nothing about economists so I'm not going to answer

I certainly can't comment on his views about tax or economics, I'm not qualified.

But I do think people who are in positions where others look up to them because of their knowledge in specific fields need to be very careful about commenting on things they know nothing about. They may end up being right, or they may be completely wrong and add to the climate of misinformation we are living in.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2021/07/26/why-are-covid-cases-declining/

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2021/07/18/tomorrow-is-not-freedom-day/

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2021/07/17/johnson-will-need-to-serve-an-appropriate-sentence/

These are all opinions and he doesn't have any more inside knowledge on any of these things than any of the rest of us. He's quite at liberty to say what he likes, but that doesn't make him right.

Whitewavemark2

alegrais can you give me a pointer to the BBC broadcast please.

What time, channel programme etc. As I can’t find it.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000y63v

About 17 minutes in.

Alegrias1

I'm not an economist, so can't debate Keynes. But I do find Murphy to have extreme views and the fact he thinks interviews aren't being broadcast on the BBC (when they actually are) because they show the government in a bad light only strengthens my opinion.

So which economist would you say was not extreme? I find your comment quite interesting