I have just about had enough of these contradictory covid19 regulations.

My first sentence is weird, but you get the drift

The BMA were adamant that anything longer that a 3 week gap for the second dose of the vaccine was folly and would be the worst decision ever.

I'll take anything else they say with a pinch of salt.

Alegrias1

The BMA were adamant that anything longer that a 3 week gap for the second dose of the vaccine was folly and would be the worst decision ever.

I'll take anything else they say with a pinch of salt.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on this thread, Alegrias and then judge whether or not the BMA is mistaken?

mobile.twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1407143750032363530

The two very real dangers of 1) long term damage to any organs (because the virus doesn't confine itself to the respiratory system) and 2) the possibility of a vaccine resistant mutation seem to me to be very good reasons for the BMA not to be happy.........

The BMA is the doctor's union, they are not a learned body. This is on their website and has just been announced as such on Classic FM news, where another doctor none of us has heard of, was rolled out to say something along the lines of "restrictions forever, definitely".

The BMA are entitled to their take on things, and their members will certainly have specialist knowledge. But they get things wrong too and they come at it from the perspective of their members, not the health and wealth of the nation. I didn't say they were mistaken, and I won't be commenting on the twitter thread you attached because I'm not a medic and I know my limitations, unlike some who only consider one aspect of a problem before sounding off to the nation.

I'm not sure which part of that thread you mean Maizie. It was started by an immunologist (not a BMA rep) who seems to know his stuff. His point is that Covid is not like flu because Covid affects the brain, which is one of the reasons it causes long-term complications. It's been known for a long time that Covid isn't primarily a respiratory disease. It's the effect on oxygen supply which affects the lungs, as it does other major organs.

His argument seems to be that short term statistics aren't adequate in evaluating the effects of Covid. Other scientists support that view and think we could be just at the beginning. That's why, in his view and others, as many people as possible should be prevented from being infected.

Is there something else in the thread about the spacing of vaccine doses?

BMA are alarmed at the current growing in covid and Johnson’s plan to completely open up.

No, nothing about spacing of vaccine doses.
I posted that thread as evidence that perhaps the BMA had grounds for concern. Seeing that Alegrias was casting doubts on utility of the BMA's comment.

I'm not a scientist, either, but I'm glad, growstuff, that you seem to have taken much the same message from that thread as I have.

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

Alegrias1

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

I posted two items. The first was paraphrased from the British Medical Association. I suspect as a doctors union, they are rightly concerned at the possibility of beds being used which were hopefully earmarked for the backlog together with the extra and in their view unnecessary work for the clinicians.

Your comment was assuming something that wasn’t true.

The next post I made was from a paediatrician. I assume you will allow him some knowledge, although you didn’t say.

Which area did you study in science?

Hospitals getting busier.

I think spacing out the vaccines was a gamble but sometimes, in an unprecedented situation you need to take gambles and luckily it seems to have worked. We need to garner information about the virus from every source possible and then throw in a bit of common sense and follow our instincts.

No, you misunderstand me WWM2

I was commenting on the fact that just because the BMA say it, that doesn't make it a fact. They were wrong about the 3 week gap and they might be wrong again. They might not, but we shouldn't take it gospel just because the BMA say it.

I also said above that I am not commenting on the twitter post because I an not an expert in this field, growstuff's post explains the situation accurately, I think.

I'll not comment on what I studied (and researched in, and taught at Uni) because that usually results in people saying things like "not your area then!" But what I "studied" taught me to question things that need to be questioned and not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions.

Whitewavemark2

Hospitals getting busier.

One thing I learnt in the subject I studied was never to take data at face value when you are not given context.

Alegrias1

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

But BMA members are medics, most of them working on the frontline.

Alegrias1

Whitewavemark2

Hospitals getting busier.

One thing I learnt in the subject I studied was never to take data at face value when you are not given context.

But hospitals are beginning to get busier again with Covid patients.

I agree growstuff, but the BMA speaks as a Trade Union. They are not the medical establishment who publish peer reviewed research and comment. They represent the interests and views of their members.

The BMA members might think that the best thing we could all do about Covid is to stay indoors for the next 6 months and wait it out. That's a view, but it doesn't take into account all the other harms that might flow from that. (I know that's not what they're saying, before anyone comes along to tell me)

I'm no fan of the way the government is handling this but people who are held up as "experts" in the field are very often not.

growstuff

Alegrias1

Whitewavemark2

Hospitals getting busier.

One thing I learnt in the subject I studied was never to take data at face value when you are not given context.

But hospitals are beginning to get busier again with Covid patients.

There was a post on Facebook yesterday that my local hospital had double the amount of Covid patients as they had a couple of days before, asking for people to be careful. But even at double, it was 10% of the total during the second wave.

Of course the hospitals getting busier is not good, of course we need to be cautious. But this constant climate of doom and gloom is not good for us, as a society. Everything is not the end of the world.

Some members of the BMA do publish peer reviewed research.

I think everybody is aware of the harms of lockdown and other restrictions but pretending there aren't problems won't make the problems go away. It won't stop long-term damage to health from Covid either.

Death and long-term health damage isn't very good for us either!

Some members of the BMA do publish peer reviewed research.

Yes they do. And that's what we should be thinking about. I expect Prof Whitty and Prof Vallance do just that.

Alegrias1

No, you misunderstand me WWM2

I was commenting on the fact that just because the BMA say it, that doesn't make it a fact. They were wrong about the 3 week gap and they might be wrong again. They might not, but we shouldn't take it gospel just because the BMA say it.

I also said above that I am not commenting on the twitter post because I an not an expert in this field, growstuff's post explains the situation accurately, I think.

I'll not comment on what I studied (and researched in, and taught at Uni) because that usually results in people saying things like "not your area then!" But what I "studied" taught me to question things that need to be questioned and not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions.

Perhaps you will however allow some comments to be posted on here as valid in their field. So in my view the BMA are absolutely correct to point out that (what appears to be a strategy of herd immunity (my opinion not the BMA) government policy will almost certainly increase hospital, admissions and the problems that result from that.

I also think that as a novel virus it is a mistake to allow it to spread unfettered through our young.

I guess that those commenting on the fact that it is not in you field of study have a point.

My family is a family of scientists they include a wide field from doctors to micro-biologist and genetic engineering, from environmentalists to geologists amongst others, and have worked in their field throughout their entire working lives since leaving university, all in different areas. They respect each other, and allow that those working in a particular field have the greater knowledge. Other than that we all accept that every single one of us have the right to be listened to and respected in our views without being constantly told that they know best because they are the scientist.

Whether you are a scientist or not any study at degree level makes you question everything that you are reading, not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions, you are not alone in science with that.

I for one tend to trust what Alegrias
says because I know she is a scientist. However she is not a medic. The problem of course, is that Covid19 is a new virus, and nobody knows absolutely, and can only surmise on what is already known about it.

Herd immunity is the aim, because that way the virus has reduced vectors for transmission and that is what we want. Ask your medical family members about that and how the phrase has been appropriated by the media to mean "let it rip".

And sorry, but this will be unpopular....everybody has a right to have their say but not everybody has a right to be listened to and respected. Got any views on General Relativity?

I also know that Whitewave’s daughter worked on the vaccine and so trust whatever she says about what her daughter has told her.
Many Gransnetters discuss but do not have absolute knowledge. I’m one of them. We read, hear the news, try to understand, but we’re not experts.
I am of course, only referring to Covid issues here.

Actually I want to change something I wrote; everyone has the right to be respected; not everyone has the right to have their views on technical matters respected.

Alegrias1

Herd immunity is the aim, because that way the virus has reduced vectors for transmission and that is what we want. Ask your medical family members about that and how the phrase has been appropriated by the media to mean "let it rip".

And sorry, but this will be unpopular....everybody has a right to have their say but not everybody has a right to be listened to and respected. Got any views on General Relativity?

I think that you will find that on a site such as this everyone has a right to be listened to and respected. Throwing your weight around means that you won’t be. You last comment was ridiculous.

maddy your view counts exactly the same as mine.