Kemi Badenoch says UK is best place in the world to be black

These days it seems that if you want to become an MP, especially a Tory MP, ethnicity matters less than privilege and wealth.

In every country and in every society and ethnic group there will be people who were born to privilege, and became accustomed to many advantages perhaps including excellent education at schools where they not only got high marks in exams, paving the way to elite universities, but also made very very useful social connections.

That is the determinant or being accepted as "one of us" in the modern Tory Party.

There might be the odd exception of the "self made man" like Sajid Javid, who did not start off as "one of us" but became a very wealthy banker so he gets in to the club.

lemongrove. I think, from what I have read, that the UK is the best place to be black ( certainly in Europe.) There is racism of some kind in all countries, but we are generally a very fair society, where a person can get on in life no matter the skin colour.We have plenty of race laws in place and people have changed their thinking a lot over the last 40 years or so.
With respect, I disagree with you. I am mixed race, for context. It's true that overt racism has declined recently, but I don't think the underlying feelings have, for many people. It's simply that it is not socially acceptable now to be perceived as racist,but many people still are. It's very subtle sometines, but easy to see when you're had a lifetime's experience of it. It can be the way someone looks at you, a frosty tone of voice, the smile for the previous white customer that doesn't extend to you - I could go on.
It's equally impossible to comprehend it totally if you never experience it. The subtle, drip drip of it. For more context, I lived in France for many years and only experienced racism three times - all from British people.

Antonia

*lemongrove. I think, from what I have read, that the UK is the best place to be black ( certainly in Europe.) There is racism of some kind in all countries, but we are generally a very fair society, where a person can get on in life no matter the skin colour.We have plenty of race laws in place and people have changed their thinking a lot over the last 40 years or so.*
With respect, I disagree with you. I am mixed race, for context. It's true that overt racism has declined recently, but I don't think the underlying feelings have, for many people. It's simply that it is not socially acceptable now to be perceived as racist,but many people still are. It's very subtle sometines, but easy to see when you're had a lifetime's experience of it. It can be the way someone looks at you, a frosty tone of voice, the smile for the previous white customer that doesn't extend to you - I could go on.
It's equally impossible to comprehend it totally if you never experience it. The subtle, drip drip of it. For more context, I lived in France for many years and only experienced racism three times - all from British people.

I'm white, my husband isn't, my kids obviously are mixed race and I agree with you. I see the difference if I am alone and if I am with him. As you say it can be subtle and that makes it hard as people dismiss it as oh it happens to everyone or you're imagining it.

I think that is correct - in fact. Which does not say it is perfect, at all.

I have just been googling racism in France and Germany, not pretty reading! Anecdotes are one thing and facts are another.
Of course there is still racism here, as there is everywhere
But the stats show there are black and Asian and other ethnicities in so many ‘top’ jobs here compared to many other European countries, that we are doing something right.

21lemongrove. I have just been googling racism in France and Germany, not pretty reading! Anecdotes are one thing and facts are another. Of course there is still racism here, as there is everywhere. But the stats show there are black and Asian and other ethnicities in so many ‘top’ jobs here compared to many other European countries, that we are doing something right
I do object, quite strongly, to your apparent dismissal of my experiences of racism as 'anecdotes' and not 'facts.'
I can assure you that the racism I have experienced was not anecdotal, but totally factual. Maybe that's not what you intended, but that's how you are coming across.
I do agree, though, that there are more ethnic minority people in top jobs in the UK compared with other countries. France has an elite of politicians who all came from the same 'grande écoles.' There can also be discrimination in France based on a politician's accent and place of birth, even if they are white.

No ‘dismissal’ at all Antonia of course I believe your account, and know there are many instances of racism ( especially the more casual everyday type) which are individually hurtful, but we must see that overall, if black and ethnic minorities do well
In chosen professions, it reflects the racism levels within a country.I am glad that the UK does allow for achievement regardless of skin colour, in such a way.

Thank you for clarifying, Lemongrove.

Antonia I'm sorry you experience racism in Britain, but your experience in France is the absolute opposite of a friend of my husband. He experienced such awful racism in France that he moved to England. They met in a pub, when my husband was having a drink after work when he was working away from home. They got chatting and a firm friendship has ensued. The friend says he has experienced less racism here than in France or his brief time in Italy. I suppose every individual will have their own unique experiences.

Rosie5. Antonia I'm sorry you experience racism in Britain, but your experience in France is the absolute opposite of a friend of my husband. He experienced such awful racism in France that he moved to England
I'm sorry to hear that. I think it might depend on where you live in France. I was in a rural hamlet; the kind where everybody knows everybody, knows everything about everybody. I think it must be different in a larger town or city, and of course, as you said, it's all down to one's individual experience.

I'll ask a friend who.as a black female police officer is well placed to express an informed opinion. Watch this space.

I'm white, but I've got ears. Listen to people's stories. And of course today us the day Dalian Atkinson's killer got 8 years for manslaughter
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-57603091

Antonia I expect you're right about rural areas being very different to cities, our friend lived in cities, the worst he said was Paris.

Apparently no European-wide data is available on how many people are discriminated against because of their racial or ethnic origin.
The UK is the only country to collect equality data on ethnic minorities.
This means that it's hard to do any kind of meaningful comparison across Europe, let alone the world.

My DiL is French and of N African ethnicity. She came to the UK about 20 years ago and feels very much more comfortable here than in France. She is Parisian and has rarely been on the receiving end of the kind of racism in the UK that she endured in her home country.

That’s not to say we don’t all worry for my GC, though, when such things can turn on a sixpence.

Kemi's statement, as previous posts have said, is a sweeping generalisation. It's generalisations that lead to racial stereotypes and the negative stereotypes contribute hugely to institutional racism, so although it's nice to hear that, and she has every right to express her positive experience, perhaps it wasn't the most considered way to phrase it.But a good headline-grabber...

It also contradicts what she was saying before she realised that her current message is popular in the Conservative Party.

Badenoch went to sixth form college in Wimbledon and used to recount a tale that her teachers didn't think she could be a doctor because she's black. They told her she should become a nurse instead. Her narrative changed.

Badenoch is my MP and is completely useless. She is hardly ever here and doesn't respond to constituents. It appears she realised that claiming the UK is the best place in the world for blacks is a popular narrative and adopted it. It's about her only message and she's sold it many times in articles in right-wing publications.

When she stood as an MP in London as Kemi Adegoke, she was rejected soundly because it was obvious she couldn't care less about poorer blacks. I don't know whether they're still available, but some of the communications she had with local people was available online. She's a Conservative and thinks she's superior to others, including blacks. She didn't like being associated with them as a result of her skin colour, so acknowledged that racism does exist.

valdali You're right. It's a headline grabber. She hasn't always said that her experience has been positive - quite the reverse, but she realised that wouldn't go down well with her adopted political party.

Baggs

^how can she possibly know?^

She is stating an opinion based on her own experience, just as other people do.

Do people think relative wealth/poverty influence this kind of opinion?

But it wasn't her experience at all. It's what she's claiming now because it suits the culture wars narrative.

Unfortunately, on this thread, what we are seeing now is anti-
Conservative rhetoric, which isn’t the point of it at all.
Bringing in political prejudice and doing a hatchet job on this black female MP has nothing to do with being black and succeeding in life in the UK.

NotSpaghetti

Apparently no European-wide data is available on how many people are discriminated against because of their racial or ethnic origin.
The UK is the only country to collect equality data on ethnic minorities.
This means that it's hard to do any kind of meaningful comparison across Europe, let alone the world.

I was quite shocked to discover that too!
There is some movement starting up in Germany amongst black people of African origin to do there own equality data, they say being black there is like being invisible.Other European countries are much the same.

lemongrove

Unfortunately, on this thread, what we are seeing now is anti-
Conservative rhetoric, which isn’t the point of it at all.
Bringing in political prejudice and doing a hatchet job on this black female MP has nothing to do with being black and succeeding in life in the UK.

Totally agree lemongrove anti-conservatism is rife on GN.

Using it to distract from an important issue is unnecessary and insulting to those who are from the BAME community.

Doodledog Statements like this should only be made by people who have lived in every country in the world, and preferably by people who have experienced being rich, poor, male, female, sick, well and every other combination of circumstances that add up to 'being black

Otherwise, how can she possibly know?

I doubt you’d make that statement if it was the other way around. As there are very few, if any, people who have lived in every country in the world and experienced being all you mention then by your reasoning nobody is qualified to offer an opinion on racism and other attitudes in other countries. Strangely, I don’t think you’d have a problem if she was bringing this country down!

74% of children held in London prisons awaiting trial are black, LBC investigation finds.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/74-of-children-held-in-london-prisons-are-black-lbc-investigation-finds/

Somebody better pop in to see these children and tell them to pull their socks up.

Rosie51

Antonia I expect you're right about rural areas being very different to cities, our friend lived in cities, the worst he said was Paris.

It varies by area in the UK as well. We used to live in a big multi cultural city and rarely had an issue, although DH says it was bad in the 50s and 60s. We moved to a very white area on the coast, we never thought about it as discrimination wasn't a big issue for us.

We had a terrible time being accepted, it has taken over 20 years for neighbours to speak to us, kids got called names at school. One "funny" incident was being in a supermarket the day the brexit result came out. DH sitting in the coffee shop, he is disabled and needed to sit down while I finished shopping. I went to join him and queued to get us a drink, lady in front of me turned round and said, "Isn't it wonderful, we'll get rid of all the immigrants now." I pointed to my husband and said, "See that brown man, he's my husband." She was most indignant which didn't improve when I laughed at her.