"gesture politics"

Eloethan I said I would curtsy to the Queen not take the knee. There is a difference. PolarBear2 I would prefer standing on one leg with a flower in my teeth. It doesn't matter what you do. Do you really think hard core racists (the racist football thugs) are going to care a dam about gestures? The footballers doing this at the match are giving ammunition to the racists to hurl back. I was always taught sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt you.
I was bullied throughout my entire school life but my mother taught me to hold my head up high and ignore the bullies. you don't have to be any particular colour , race or creed there will always be others who bully others because it makes them feel good, because they get a kick out of it!
Sorry I will not be bullied into agreeing with others just because they think they are right!

I do actually think that en masse, public condemnation of racism, and support for those who are subjected to it could turn the tide.
Who is a racist going to spout bile to, if they see that everyone will stand up to it?

Sorry I will not be bullied into agreeing with others just because they think they are right!

Who is bullying you, Silverlady333?

Yes, that!

choughdancer

Who would have thought that a simple, harmless, dignified action that has a powerful message would cause such anger?
No damage done, no police required, no injuries caused, no arrests; just the point of solidarity with others being made. I think that Guto Harri being taken off TV for showing his support is disgraceful.

There’s the rub I guess. There’s nothing bad about the gesture so it makes some people angry simply because of that. They want to be able to say it’s damaging-but it isn’t. I guess it must really infuriate that particular section of the population.

There are plenty of BAME folks who do not like the taking of the knee - it stems from the killing of George Floyd which, frankly, has nothing to do with us in the UK. Its a dog whistle political gesture - I do wonder how many footballers really want to "take the knee" or are just going along because they are feeling pressurised.

I believe the US represents itself as the greatest democracy in the world. Acting on this belief, it has been keen to influence how other countries are run and has even had a hand in destabilising leaders and governments. I therefore think that what happens in the US matters to the UK and to the rest of the world.

Aside from that, while I don't believe our police force and other public institutions are as blatantly racist as in the US, we too have significant issues on a number of levels, not least the disproportionate number of black people who have died in police custody or as a result of police actions.

I don't think the term "dog whistle politics" correctly describes the action of taking the knee:

"Dog-whistle politics is a form of political rhetoric in which coded language is used, thereby ensuring that a message reaches a target audience without making the general public aware of the specific content of the message. Much like a dog whistle, which is only audible to ears which can hear sounds in a certain frequency, dog-whistle politics often slides below the radar of the average citizen, allowing politicians to target certain groups of the electorate with very specific language." (Merriam-Webster)

Taking the knee is a simple action taken to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism, and its meaning is not "coded" or "covert". I would describe Thatcher's "swamping" remark and Johnson's "letterbox" remark as dog whistles in that the they were a coded way of "othering" certain sections of the population in order to reinforce hostile attitudes and garner votes.

I wouldn't bend the knee myself ( probably wouldn't be able to get up) but if people want to do that, well it's up to them. I'd rather it was another type of gesture or song,even but I'm not sure what. It is too American for me, I have a prejudice against most things American I'm afraid. As for clapping people doing their job,no . Give them a pay rise instead.

Good post eloethan

I see the Olympic football teams are taking the knee.

As polar indicated.

It is a peaceful powerful message that infuriates the racists and reminds us all of the continued failure to rid society of racism.

Saetana

There are plenty of BAME folks who do not like the taking of the knee - it stems from the killing of George Floyd which, frankly, has nothing to do with us in the UK. Its a dog whistle political gesture - I do wonder how many footballers really want to "take the knee" or are just going along because they are feeling pressurised.

It is not all to do with George floyd, as has been pointed out many times.
It’s a symbolic gesture that’s all. Just like clapping for the nhs.

What is so wrong with gestures? Emily Davidson throwing herself in front of the king's horse at Epsom in 1913 was a very powerful gesture IMO.

Our history is littered with gestures and demonstrations ( a gesture writ large) - serfs against landowners, farm workers against landowners because of enclosures, the Tolpuddle Martyrs and the 60,000 who demonstrated in St Peter's Field, Manchester. There are many more examples.

Sometimes gestures work.

No it wasn't. It was a stupid act that brought shame on the movement.

It’s the sort of thing that people end up doing when years of peaceful protest isn’t getting them anywhere though. And nowhere near as bad as blowing things up which I believe they also did.

MayBee70

It’s the sort of thing that people end up doing when years of peaceful protest isn’t getting them anywhere though. And nowhere near as bad as blowing things up which I believe they also did.

Gosh!

www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/articles/suffragettes-violence-and-militancy#

And to think we now have a government that is taking away our right to protest peacefully and nobody seems bothered about it. And journalists won’t be allowed to call them out without facing imprisonment. Everything people have faught for for years is slowly being taken away from us.

The proposals re treating journalists who disclose issues that should clearly be in the public domain are truly frightening.

The crazy thing is the people that can see the underhand things the government are doing are often also vaccine deniers as well because they don’t thrust anything they do.

The problem is, whatever "symbolism" taking the knee had, it has long since worn out with the general public. Like the clapping for the NHS - it had its time and place but, after a while, it was decided it was an empty gesture. This is what taking the knee is - it does NOTHING to solve real racism, it is just an empty gesture.

The government are NOT taking away the right to peaceful protest - they are just putting some limits on it. I live in Bristol where we have had around FOURTEEN so-called kill the bill protests in the last two months alone, not to mention a number of protests about other issues. I guarantee if you did a survey of residents most people would say that, whilst they support the right to peaceful protest, they are totally fed up of having their lives disrupted on average once a week.

Let us not forget that the first so-called peaceful protest for "kill the bill" (in Bristol) resulted in a riot with police vans set on fire (one with officers still inside), the police station being attacked, and injuries to around 50 police officers and a similar number of protesters.

The government are NOT taking away the right to peaceful protest - they are just putting some limits on it.

There are a lot of entrants up for "comment of the day" today, but I'd like to nominate this one please

This proposed legislation is simply trying to defend the right of all of us to go about our daily lives unhindered by idiotic demonstrations which as we have seen over the past few years, can bring whole neighbourhoods to a standstill.

Why should a relatively few protesters have the right to do that? They don’t do they?

“ Why should a relatively few protesters have the right to do that? They don’t do they?”

Did somebody say that to ms Pankhurst et al ?

Saetana

The problem is, whatever "symbolism" taking the knee had, it has long since worn out with the general public. Like the clapping for the NHS - it had its time and place but, after a while, it was decided it was an empty gesture. This is what taking the knee is - it does NOTHING to solve real racism, it is just an empty gesture.

See, it’s not. It’s not empty because it annoys people who don’t want to have to think about how rubbish it is to be a person of colour. ?‍♀️

^ trying to defend the right of all of us to go about our daily lives unhindered by idiotic demonstrations which as we have seen over the past few years, can bring whole neighbourhoods to a standstill.^

Since when did that become a 'right'?

Polarbear2 Oh please - that is insinuating everyone who does not support taking the knee is racist! I was watching an interesting interview on the BBC a few days ago with a black professor who said this is exactly the problem - people should not be labelled as racist because they do not support the empty gesture of taking the knee. As I said earlier, taking the knee does absolutely nothing to end actual racism - please do tell if you happen to know differently.