"gesture politics"

I'd quite like a "Take the Knee" Thursday to show support against racism. Maybe if enough people did it those who are targeted with racism would realise that we don't like it either. I'm not suggesting it would make a huge difference to their lives but I would hope it would show that there were more people who support them than are against.

When my son went to Huddersfield for the first time, he couldn't believe the overt racism he heard specifically targeted at those it would hurt most. He was absolutely shocked and although he loved the girl who came from there, he vowed never to move up there.

Oh for goodness sake this whole thread is like the person who tries to win an argument on semantics rather than substance.

The England team made a statement about racism; it doesn't matter in the slightest whether or not they got the process slightly wrong (unless they had tried to do it by wearing white hoods and burning crosses).

And as has been said on another thread, a government which encourages people to clap for the NHS then offers them a 1% pay rise has a lot learn about gestures, and indeed about politics.

My daughter has just stopped attending a local playgroup because of racist comments she heard being made. Racism is very widespread. Worse since Brexit I think. Like Trump, BJ has made racism acceptable again.

I'm in favour of a 'Take the Knee' Thursday icanhandthemback. I'd need to plan in advance. I can't manage spontaneous kneeling these days.

We already had an alternative to taking the knee. The Kick it Out campaign seems to have disappeared unfortunately.

I agree with Priti Patel - taking the knee is the very epitome of "gesture politics", in that it does nothing whatsoever to combat actual racism. Whatever point they were trying to make with this specific gesture has long since been lost in the politics - most other sporting organisations have stopped taking the knee for this very reason. I wonder what will happen at the Olympics - they have an outright ban on any kind of political gesture, I've already heard the England women's football team plan to take the knee.

GrannyGravy13

Eloethan regarding Ms.Patel saying that taking the knee was gesture politics , taking the knee is definitely a gesture and it is definitely political.

And the message?

I never? heard of taking the knee until the George Floyd murder,but i don't think anyone should be forced to do it,
How do we know all the English footballers agree with it,just because they do it
It seemed to become very popular when BLM started
I remember when it first started,Dominic Raab said the only ones he would take the knee for were his wife and the queen

I think this tweet is very apt in this thread.

Dear @pritipatel
— was not this also, quite literally, "gesture politics"? Perhaps you'd like to rethink... no, sorry, I mean perhaps you'd like to think.

blondenana

I never? heard of taking the knee until the George Floyd murder,but i don't think anyone should be forced to do it,
How do we know all the English footballers agree with it,just because they do it
It seemed to become very popular when BLM started
I remember when it first started,Dominic Raab said the only ones he would take the knee for were his wife and the queen

Are you listening to the message?

Kneeling has, throughout history and across cultures and races, has signalled subservience and defeat and everybody, however much they pretend that events of the last few seconds of world history link a submissive gesture with a one off event, knows that the losers kowtow to the winners.

It is too much for a proud, able, and independent people to be asked to abase themselves in submission because a man did a bad thing thousands of miles away.

Should the British be seen to be kneeling to others the world would view it as defeat and any good we could do in the world would be stymied.

We should not be dictated to by the Woke, pursuing a secret anti Establishment agenda, and allow them to define the terms of engagement. Kneeling is not a mark of respect because they say it is. It means what it has ever meant.

I do not, for a moment, believe that we live in a racist, or institutionally racist country. Most people are decent and tolerant and show this in their daily politeness and respectful dealings with others. Hard cases make bad law as they say and allowing the anarchistic to weaponise the Floyd case has been a real act of folly.

I write as someone who would never treat another human being on the basis of anything but their character and behaviour.

Matt Hancock cockily said last year he would only take the knee for The Queen and his wife. Well he has since shown what respect he has for his wife.

Many of them enjoyed sneering at people who wanted to support the taking of the knee.
I find them all sickening. They just remind me of the pigs in Animal Farm.

Sorry it was Dominic Raab.
As they say on Mumsnet RTFT.

True gesture politics is clapping all those folk working their hearts out in the NHS, then offering them a pay cut.

The message?

We really don’t value you.

I agree.

Am laughing at the idea that people would view kneeling in Britain as some sort of defeat, when we have spent all the time I have been alive showing utter submission in physical gestures to one family, but am sure that's different.

Maybe because the British don't have a leg to stand on going on their past behaviour?

Galaxy

Am laughing at the idea that people would view kneeling in Britain as some sort of defeat, when we have spent all the time I have been alive showing utter submission in physical gestures to one family, but am sure that's different.

Strange, isn't it?

I do not consider myself as racist (although there are some cultural practices that I abhor intently, such as FGM). However I will not take the knee! I will curtsy to the Queen and bow my head for fallen soldiers. to me taking the knee is subservient (I watched 'Game of Thrones). There must surely be another gesture we can use. In any case I do not think it will make an difference to any football racist thugs and indeed may incite them to be even more horrible!

I would like to make a gesture towards Priti Patel’s politics but it would involve two fingers

Those who think that taking the knee is subservient - who do you think people are kneeling to? Where is the subservience here? I could understand if the kneelers were kneeling to a person, or even a statue - but they aren't.

I despair reading this thread. ITS NOT ABOUT THE KNEE!! It doesn’t matter if they stand on one leg with a flower in their teeth. It’s about THE MESSAGE. it’s like several of you have your fingers in your ears singing ‘la la la not listening’. But… I think you’re in a fast shrinking minority now. The tide is turning and you’re left on the beach if you don’t start paying proper attention.

I completely agree with your post earlier Lilyflower

Silverlady333 Surely curtsying to the queen is subservient - it is a clear statement of the superiority of one person over another? That's OK I suppose if you think the queen or people of royal descent are, because of their lineage, inherently superior but I don't. Taking the knee is a statement and is not performed as an act of deference or submission to another person or group of people.

Great thread Eloethan- just how I feel. The hypocrisy is so vast.

Who would have thought that a simple, harmless, dignified action that has a powerful message would cause such anger?
No damage done, no police required, no injuries caused, no arrests; just the point of solidarity with others being made. I think that Guto Harri being taken off TV for showing his support is disgraceful.