Ken Loach may be kicked out of Labour

Many extreme left wing Labour Party members don’t actually know what it’s like to actually be dirt poor.

I think that is true, Maybee

If Tony Blair is considered to be a conservative then this must be what voters want.

Blair won three consecutive general elections, ended 18 years of tory rule.

Corbyn and Michael Foot brought disastrous general election results

Well, thanks, Callistemon and Annieb for telling me just what I'd asked not to be told.

Or are you telling me that the electorate doesn't actually give a toss about what a party proposes to do while in government, they just go for some carefully managed 'perceptions'?

Perhaps the LP might have been better off finding some Jack the Lad for a new leader, post Corbyn; because competence and honesty doesn't seem to be cutting it.

Anniebach your reply about Harold Wilson shows the corruption that has always gone on in government and industry. A gravy train. I was citing Wilson as the last leftwing Labour PM. I think there was a lot of corruption in the NCB after nationalisation they wanted what the wealthy mine owners had had in many ways they obviously knew no boundaries.

And the voters in 2019 wanted Boris to get Brexit done.
All the Labour MPs wete to blame for the disaster because many had their knives in Corbyn undermining him and some still wanted Brexit.

Does that include Corbynite Chris Williamson who actively stood and campaigned against the Labour candidate in his area thereby trying to split the vote in what was a marginal constituency. Just as he helped campaign for Galloway recently.

Yes MayBee70 they have all acted shambolically.
Our ex Labour MP blasted Corbyn but so many people i spoke to about her were sick of her for not replying to them and for not backing Brexit. Our Tory MP has replied to me 6 times since 2019 proper replies. Unfortunately he is currently unavailable because of sex abuse charges but that is a different matter.

And the voters in 2019 wanted Boris to get Brexit done.

So, Labour needs a Jack the Lad leader and a single issue?

None of this nonsense about wanting to improve people's lives and run the state for the benefit of its citizens?

Well, thanks, Callistemon and Annieb for telling me just what I'd asked not to be told.

Ah, but it's probably the truth so if leftwingers keep wearing blinkers and earplugs then we will continue to have one Tory government after another.

That is the problem and there's some proof that the leftwing of the LP is just not getting it!!

,So, Labour needs a Jack the Lad leader and a single issue?

Who said that?
Was that how you perceived Tony Blair?

MaizieD don't shoot the messenger i am still mourning the 2019 GE but that is what people voted for on that December Thursday and the price we have still yet to pay.

Callistemon

^Many extreme left wing Labour Party members don’t actually know what it’s like to actually be dirt poor.^

I think that is true, Maybee

I think some of us do. We just don't go on about it and we aren't prejudiced against people who have money but simply believe in equality and fair shares. There are very few people left who grew up in extreme poverty simply because a socialist government put in place measures to stop that.
My mother grew up in the 30s with a father who sometimes worked, because he was a docker, and the system meant he was employed sometimes and not at others. What is dreadful is that the LP now seems to be embracing the very policies he and other Union members fought against . It's abandoning the principles it once had and is supporting a system which is bringing back poverty for many families. It's disgusting.

Whatdayisit

MaizieD don't shoot the messenger i am still mourning the 2019 GE but that is what people voted for on that December Thursday and the price we have still yet to pay.

And unless the left wake up, get in touch with what the electorate wants, not what the very left wing of the LP thinks they need, that's what we will keep getting.

Surely it is obvious the country doesn’t want a far left government but the far left want a far left party leader

Well, it's obvious to so many, Anniebach.

We and all the erstwhile Labour voters obviously don't know what's good for us!

Some posters have said that they won't be voting Labour again, maybe even leaving the party because it no longer represents the socialist values that they hold dear.

I'd really like to know what those specific values are please. I'm a member of the LP and not withdrawing my support any time soon.

Why did Blair win three consecutive general elections ?

Why did Michael Foot and Corbyn take the party to such
disasterous general election results ?

I don't think we will see a Labour Government again. The SNP took a lot of Labour seats which Westminster needed. A lot of constituencies have changed one in our area Hemsworth was once solid Labour - donkey and all that - it now includes a large chunk of the most affluent area of Wakefield.
A lot of people don't want to engage in politics they just want their lives to run smoothly - and why not - and have ambitions of affluence.

Sounds like the sort of people that didn’t bother to work hard at school because they assumed they would just become a celeb one day. imo the next government of this country will be a Labour one and I’m going to do my darnest to achieve that. And for that reason I’m going to support the leader if the party. As I did with the previous one.

I was thinking of a saying (inspired by other threads) my gran used to say
Stick to your stall even if you sell nowt!
My mum and i thought how out of date as she usually used it for my mum's marriage or awful jobs.
But i think it could be used for Labour and we have been here so many times before.

Dinahmo

Some posters have said that they won't be voting Labour again, maybe even leaving the party because it no longer represents the socialist values that they hold dear.

I'd really like to know what those specific values are please. I'm a member of the LP and not withdrawing my support any time soon.

To me, leaving the LP is far less of a deal than not voting Labour again. Many, if not most voters are not in a party, so it really won't make much difference to the party if people leave or stay. I joined this time in order to have a vote in the leadership election.

If I leave, it will be because of the anti-feminist stance on Trans rights and because of the silencing of dissenting voices, although as I've said I can (sort of) understand why the latter may have been deemed necessary. There are other things with which I disagree, or by which I am disappointed, but on the whole they could be sorted out if Labour get into power.

It doesn't mean that I won't vote Labour though. I honestly can't see an alternative to that.

Also, I agree with trisher's point that the reason many people are no longer in poverty is because of LP policies and innovations of the past. Too many people did well from that and then taught their children to pull the rug up behind them by voting Tory.

Comments about how rich people should not be Labour supporters or Labour MPs are testament to this point of view, and those who hold it may as well admit that they want to keep others in poverty. Similarly, all the posters who never forget to include details of their 'excellent' 50s education in grammar schools, yet decry the expansion of university places in the 90s do the same. They 'got ahead' because of Labour policies, but cling to the elitism that these policies allowed them to bypass. Not to want the same chances for others is mean-spirited in the extreme.

Callistemon

^Well, thanks, Callistemon and Annieb for telling me just what I'd asked not to be told.^

Ah, but it's probably the truth so if leftwingers keep wearing blinkers and earplugs then we will continue to have one Tory government after another.

That is the problem and there's some proof that the leftwing of the LP is just not getting it!!

You said this, Cal

The majority do not want extremism of any kind.
They want someone who seems to be decisive - neither Corbyn then nor Johnson now are decisive.
Nor a party which is particularly divisive as both main parties are at present.

A party which appeals to the majority is, of necessity, not a party of extremism

That tells me nothing. Nothing at all about how people want their country to be run, or the measures needed to run the country in that way.

We're just going round in circles.

So, if a party has as its manifesto,

We are not extremist
We are decisive
We are not divisive

they are going to sweep the board because that is what the country wants? No need to bother with policies and ideas for improving citizen's lives?

I was thinking about families now who work in skilled jobs like electricians or plumbers who might buy a house to do up don't vote Labour because they want to keep their money and not pay high taxes.
I think those who didn't work at school cos they were going to be celebs mostly don't bother voting.

And unless the left wake up, get in touch with what the electorate wants, not what the very left wing of the LP thinks they need, that's what we will keep getting.

Please.please stop repeating this like a mantra. It tells us absolutely nothing.

What is 'far left' all about?

Look at the 2019 LP manifesto. What was so 'far left', and so totally unacceptable to the electorate, about it?

Whatdayisit

I was thinking about families now who work in skilled jobs like electricians or plumbers who might buy a house to do up don't vote Labour because they want to keep their money and not pay high taxes.
I think those who didn't work at school cos they were going to be celebs mostly don't bother voting.

Aha... something concrete. A reason for not voting Labour.

A lot of people don't want to engage in politics they just want their lives to run smoothly - and why not - and have ambitions of affluence.

That is so weird, because unless they vote for a party that is going to endeavour to help people's lives to run smoothly (which does mean a certain engagement in politics, doesn't it?) it's not going to happen...