Police and racism

It's all very well Rosie, but when it is repeated all the time, it goes beyond being just an inconvenience to being discrimination.

It is soul destroying. Being discriminated against repeatedly, week in, week out. NOT a one off, but all the bl**dy time.

My ( white) husband worked shifts as an IT professional. When he managed to finish a nightshift early, say 3 am or so he was frequently stopped by either City of London police or our local police and asked to account for being out and about at that hour. Yes it was an inconvenience, yes it was a PITA, yes he got p*ssed off with being stopped, but he accepted they were just doing their job. Our poor police can't do right for doing wrong. Wonder who their fiercest critics call when they're a victim of crime.......

Galaxy

If we are going to stop people because of a particular characteristic then the overwhelming marker for violent crime is sex, so we should be stopping all males, I presume people are comfortable with this.

Exactly Galaxy.

Start stopping 1 in 10 cars driven by men (whatever colour).

Lolo81

The issue I see is that cited statistics and overall conviction rates etc are underpinning the institutional racism at play. One could argue that if young men who are not white are 9 times more likely to be a target of stop and search, then all these statistics are proving is that the numbers of convictions/arrests are a direct result of that specific population being targeted. Not that there are fewer white men actually breaking the law - they’re just more likely to not get caught because it’s less likely that they’ll be stopped.

That has crossed my mind, but bear in mind that there are apparently no statistics to show the ethnicity of those convicted.

Perhaps there should be?

The issue I see is that cited statistics and overall conviction rates etc are underpinning the institutional racism at play. One could argue that if young men who are not white are 9 times more likely to be a target of stop and search, then all these statistics are proving is that the numbers of convictions/arrests are a direct result of that specific population being targeted. Not that there are fewer white men actually breaking the law - they’re just more likely to not get caught because it’s less likely that they’ll be stopped.

But if we are stopping on the basis of colour we need to be stopping on the basis of sex. So your husband or sons need to be stopped only for the reason that they are Male.

Surely many more males are stopped and searched as opposed to females?

Galaxy

If we are going to stop people because of a particular characteristic then the overwhelming marker for violent crime is sex, so we should be stopping all males, I presume people are comfortable with this.

There is a thought.

If we are going to stop people because of a particular characteristic then the overwhelming marker for violent crime is sex, so we should be stopping all males, I presume people are comfortable with this.

PS the latest report is year ended Mch 21, but of course is untypical because of lockdown.

It shows a big drop in certain months coinciding with lockdown.

M0nica

But which group are the ones carrying and using, rather than just carrying?

I’ve searched the HoC library.

Figures show only knife related crime, but not by ethnicity.

So I don’t know the answer - I am sorry.

But which group are the ones carrying and using, rather than just carrying?

M0nica

The graph shows knife possession, not stabbings and murders.

Yes that’s right, but I suppose one can’t be carried out without possession of the other.

The graph shows knife possession, not stabbings and murders.

The report however seems to suggest that they are targeting the wrong people

The Police are walking a fine line. If there are knife or abuse crimes relating to particular minority groups then they have to stop people from those groups in that area. Should they not search those people and let the criminals get away, or search them and be accused of racism? This has been a problem for years and has indeed resulted in criminals getting away with terrible crimes.

There

Totaly agree with you Lemongrove.
The majority of knife crime is black on black,it`s in/on the news,take a gander on youtube and see the videos of court hearings.

Maybe if their were more ethic minorities in the police forces it would help with general policing.
www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce-and-business/workforce-diversity/police-workforce/latest

This does not appear to support your claim

Whitewavemark2, I can see what you are getting at but there is a conflict here between the need to make sure that all people are treated fairly and equally by the police and how to deal with a serious type of crime that is more prevalent in one ethnic group than any other. This is why I asked you whether you have any ideas on how this conflict can be resolved.

We have already seen in Rochdale, Oxford and other cities the problems that arise when one crime, in this case the sexual exploitation of young girls, is more prevalent in one ethnic group, than others and the damage done to so many troubled children by the unwillingness of the police to investigate properly because of their fear of being accused of racism.

There is a real problem here and there is never the simple cause and effect in these problems that you seem to see. Yes, there is undoubtedly racism in the number of black youths/men stopped and searched but person on person knife crime is also highly prevalent in this group. What do you suggest could be done to bring together these conflicting problems.

If you hear a dull thud it is me banging my head against a brick wall.

You mentioned stop and search trisher which is what I have replied to.

If black youngsters are more likely to be carrying a knife either because of the macho culture or fear of others stabbing them, then that’s why they are stopped more often than white youngsters.

lemongrove

Yes, the stop and search programme is about stopping knife crime, mainly black on black and usually gang related.

I agree it must be rotten to be stopped more often if you happen to be black.
No easy answers if we want to stop all the knife deaths.

That is NO WHAT THE REPORT said.