So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

Just had a look at that! Quite a palaver. Plus this …

We Remain voters are continually accused of whinging about something or other.

Can I be the first to ask Leave voters to stop whinging about the fact that we voted to leave the club so now we don't get any of the advantages. Its like trying to reason with a recalcitrant child: we're not in the EU, if employing someone with an EU passport and all the right to work in the EU is what a company needs, that's what they advertise for. We don't have automatic rights to work there any more.

If you voted Leave because you didn't like freedom of movement, then this is what you voted for.

Protectionism is the name of the game, ALL countries want employment for their own citizens, some countries, like India go one step further and only allow goods that are locally manufactured, with very high tariffs on imports. The US has very tough working visa rules, Australia, you need a skill that they need before you are welcomed.

The opportunity for paid EU employment is going to be less, just as paid employment for EU workers in the UK are going to be less, we only want those with the skills we need.

As for Pilots unless you are ex military its a very expensive passion, if you have rich parents that can pay £120k plus to train for an EASA Licence, otherwise forget it and get a proper job.

A proper job?!?!?

Chewbacca

^Yes, for sure^ got it!

Got what? Their dad is from NI, and the other grand-parents, and great.grand parents and further back.

Ha ha, Lucca that is the "easy" route! The so-called "youth mobility scheme" designed to be quick and straightforward.

Kali2

Chewbacca

Yes, for sure got it!

Got what? Their dad is from NI, and the other grand-parents, and great.grand parents and further back.

I never knew living in N Ireland entitled one to an Irish /EU passport? NI was always part of the U.K., so how is that?

I'm sure there will be the possibility for some to work in Europe but with all the hoops to jump through it will probably too expensive and difficult for your seasonal worker

MawBe

Kali2

Chewbacca

Yes, for sure got it!

Got what? Their dad is from NI, and the other grand-parents, and great.grand parents and further back.

I never knew living in N Ireland entitled one to an Irish /EU passport? NI was always part of the U.K., so how is that?

I suspect it's because the Irish government has always considered the citizens of NI to be Irish and therefore entitked to Irish passports.

Apparently there is a huge shortage of seasonal workers in many holiday resorts causing restaurants and hotels to stop serving food. This might be linked to all the EU aand Australian workers going home. So it's OK for British young people- stop dreaming of chalets and ski resorts, or of flying a plane. Get yourself to Blackpool and wait tables!

trisher

MawBe

Kali2

Chewbacca

Yes, for sure got it!

Got what? Their dad is from NI, and the other grand-parents, and great.grand parents and further back.

I never knew living in N Ireland entitled one to an Irish /EU passport? NI was always part of the U.K., so how is that?

I suspect it's because the Irish government has always considered the citizens of NI to be Irish and therefore entitked to Irish passports.

I believe it's an essential part of the Good Friday Agreement, too. It helps to maintain a very fuzzy 'border/nonborder between Ireland and NI

trisher

Apparently there is a huge shortage of seasonal workers in many holiday resorts causing restaurants and hotels to stop serving food. This might be linked to all the EU aand Australian workers going home. So it's OK for British young people- stop dreaming of chalets and ski resorts, or of flying a plane. Get yourself to Blackpool and wait tables!

My DC have done that too when they were students (but not in Blackpool!)

halfpint1

I'm sure there will be the possibility for some to work in Europe but with all the hoops to jump through it will probably too expensive and difficult for your seasonal worker

It's not just seasonal workers (though apparently I'm not allowed to point this out because we're only to talk about the occupations mentioned in the OP).

My DD is an academic and has worked on a succession of studies since graduating. Many of these projects have involved researchers from EU member states and EU funding. UK researchers have spent time working in other EU countries and other EU nationals have worked in the UK. This applies to most academic research, not just in my DD's field. This is now largely closed to UK researchers.

It's a precarious enough occupation as it is, with short term contracts lasting only for the length of the project (typically about 18 months - 2 years) and a constant search for funding for new studies. The next job is never a certainty. Closing off of inter EU projects and funding restricts opportunities for work.

This is grown-up stuff, working to support oneself and possibly a family. Not student summer jobs...

How many people gave a thought to families/ businesses that suffered through free movement of people?
I was living in Bulgaria before they joined the eu ( yes, you can buy a property and start a business outside the eu)
Many many businesses, particularly in the hospitality and technology industry suffered or shut down completely because the brightest and best left that country for the dream.
The same for Romania.
These are 2 of the poorest countries in Europe. Just when they were emerging from the communist cosh they loose some of their best workers.
It wasn’t all good.

In my last job I subcontracted a Bulgarian software house to write a significant piece of software for us. It was straightforward because they were in the EU. Not sure how straightforward it would be now, or even if it would be possible.

Of course people thought about the "brain drain" for new members of the EU, but throwing away the whole concept of EU membership because of it would just be using it as a pretext, really.

I should have added of course, they stayed in their home country. As did the Finnish and Estonian companies I subcontracted. They got business, it added to their economies. There's two sides to every story.

As for Pilots unless you are ex military its a very expensive passion, if you have rich parents that can pay £120k plus to train for an EASA Licence, otherwise forget it and get a proper job.

I sincerely hope it is a proper job or else I'm not getting on a plane again.

The point I was making about training to be a pilot is that we and the EU have a surplus of trained pilots and going into a career where there are more qualified personnel than vacancies is not a good career choice.

I don't think it cost anything like that when the pilot in our family trained. However, some firms do not treat their staff well (he declined a job offer from one firm in particular).

I suspect it's because the Irish government has always considered the citizens of NI to be Irish and therefore entitked to Irish passports
I believe it's an essential part of the Good Friday Agreement, too. It helps to maintain a very fuzzy 'border/nonborder between Ireland and NI

Thank you both - one of those “concessions” with a political agenda.

Irish passport is available to anyone born or who has a parent or grandparent born in NI is entitled to an Irish passport. Yes it was part of the Good Friday agreement. It wasn’t such an advantage to have both passports before Brexit, but now the applications for Irish passports had soared.

MaizieD

trisher

MawBe

Kali2

Chewbacca

Yes, for sure got it!

Got what? Their dad is from NI, and the other grand-parents, and great.grand parents and further back.

I never knew living in N Ireland entitled one to an Irish /EU passport? NI was always part of the U.K., so how is that?

I suspect it's because the Irish government has always considered the citizens of NI to be Irish and therefore entitked to Irish passports.

I believe it's an essential part of the Good Friday Agreement, too. It helps to maintain a very fuzzy 'border/nonborder between Ireland and NI

I think the arrangement predates the GFI and was in the original agreement. The Republic of Ireland has always considered all people born on the island of Ireland to be Irish and many people north of the border consider themselves to be Irish.

If Greta Thunburg gets her way all pilots and aviation staff will be redundant PDQ

It's also the reason that Irish citizens have the right to live and work in the UK without visas (and still do). It was an attempt in the original agreement to acknowledge that some Irish didn't want to break away from Great Britain. Being in the EU made things much simpler because none of the fudging mattered. We were all EU citizens.

GrannyGravy13

If Greta Thunburg gets her way all pilots and aviation staff will be redundant PDQ

I shall have to take the hippie trail to Australia, then.

Pilots fly because they have a passion for flying, in the past it was possible to get a PPL, build hours bush flying and progress that way, it was always a long haul some did make it through to airline work. Bush flying is now being taken over by local pilots, expat pilots are becoming a rare breed, wether it is Africa, Australia, NZ, India, it’s the same story.

Increasingly airlines train their own recruits, but they pay up front for the training, completing training a new recruit can be flying as copilot on your holiday jet at 22yrs. Just like cabin crew, their status is a lot less than years ago. Many see themselves a glorified bus drivers because everything is automated and they just obey instructions hour after hour, there is no decisions for you to make, the book tells you what to do. They stay because at present the pay is good, probably not for much longer.

There are flying jobs that require decision making, rescue and medivac is very much hands on, my brother flys helicopters doing that, he is a ex RN pilot, enjoys every minute despite mediocre wages.

To go back to OP, I recognise that in countries such as France, Switzerland etc where skiing and winter sports are a staple part of the economy , this might be seen as an issue. But as only a tiny percentage of young people from the U.K. look for seasonal jobs as ski instructors or chalet girls so I don’t really see this as dashing their hopes. We do have indoor ski slopes in the U.K. and outdoor artificial slopes where ski instructors are employed anyway.
In our day we perhaps used to go grape picking in France (the long university vac being in the summer, ) but again that was pretty elitist and involved only a tiny % of young people, most of whom did not get the university at all, but went into employment straight from school.
Given the huge shortage of workers in the hospitality sector in the U.K. post-furlough, I should have thought those who are actively seeking a long term career in hospitality had more chance than ever.
I can’t in all conscience shed too many tears for the Hooray Henrys/Henriettas