So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

Thank you MerylStreep that was the school I was trying to think of.

imo anyway - It 's not how the schools are doing in exam results.
I have little trust in published A level results. After talking to DD1 who has a job marking exam papers for A level Biology.
It's how the young people coming out of this educational system will learn to survive in our new world.

GagaJo

Which bit is wrong GG13?

When did you last teach in a working class secondary school?

Same question came to mind !

Callistemon

^Many teachers are handicapped by the attitudes which pupils bring with them.^

Presumably those pupils may not be the ones who are interested in expanding their horizons anyway.

Or influenced by the attitudes of their parents and/or grandparents.

Should teachers just accept that these pupils are fated to a life of narrow-minded thinking and parochialism? Most teachers I know try very hard to show that there are doors to be opened, even if the pupils themselves choose not to open them.

Back to the OP and future opportunities for our young people.
I’ve been wondering what will happen if/when job and career seekers are actively discriminated against because they do not have access to an EU passport. For example, some employers both UK and EU, will be seeking to recruit to jobs, based in the UK, that require a certain amount of European travel. I have friends, and YES they are still good friends, who voted to leave the EU but have Irish or Spanish passports through ancestry, country of origin or marriage. Will their GC have an advantage over mine when it comes to the UK job market? I voted remain and have no access to an EU passport. Will there be any recourse on discrimination grounds? We already have laws about other forms of discrimination. Already I am finding that they have access to educational opportunities denied to my GC. How can we ensure equality of opportunity for all?

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

growstuff a good teacher will engage with their pupils (whatever the subject) motivate and nurture their quest for knowledge.

It is nowhere near that simple. Engaging with students is a real skill of mine. Vast numbers of British students don't have a quest for knowledge. They live in a nation that culturally only values education for the middle/upper classes.

I agree and, in that respect, the UK is out-of-line with many other countries.

Good question Camellia. For one reason or other, many of the young people I know do have dual nationality with an EU passport. They are very much aware that they have a very valuable asset.

Yes, for sure. Our GCs have access to Irish passports, I am so glad to say.

I turly despise those Leave voters who have since then applied for Irish or EU passports. they voted to deny others, knowing they would be able to not be denied themselves. Yes, despicable.

Yes, for sure got it!

Chewbacca

^Yes, for sure^ got it!

??

I love my British students. My favourites are the disengaged but sparky and intelligent ones. I don't even mind if they are a handful. I'm quite capable of winning them round.

But most of my schools have been in the North East, where Thatcher decimated industry. My lovely, intelligent, funny, wonderful students have had very little to work towards because there is no work for them at the end of it all. Add to that 3 generations of unemployment and attitudes towards education are that it is pretty much a waste of time.

It isn't the teaching. 6 teachers from my longest serving NE school decamped to a prestigious (students went to Oxbridge, Harvard, Princeton, Columbia) school in China. Teaching the same lessons in the same way. The difference was the attitude towards education. The two top students I taught started out as very middle-ability but worked flat out for 5 years. One went to Oxford, the other to a uni in Geneva (oh yes, she taught herself/with tutors French, so she could do uni in French).

There ARE children who buck the system. But at a push, I would say that is 1 in 10. White British working class culture does not tend to value academic education.

I have had students who I otherwise got on with tell me in all seriousness that they didn't need to know how to read and write.

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

Which bit is wrong GG13?

When did you last teach in a working class secondary school?

My best friends daughter has just completed her PhD. Only child from working class family, went to working class Secondary School, to go to university.

I suggest you look at some of the schools in the East End of London, and their record on getting pupils into Oxbridge?

If you as a teacher have no faith, how can you inspire your students?

Firstly, offering your best friends daughter is not evidence that contradicts GagaJo's post, fantastic though it is for that person. Twisting GagaJo's words does not add anything to your argument either.

London does do comparatively well. So it should after the money put in via the London Challenge. The overall funding for the scheme was £15 million for the first three years and £80 million in total over the full eight years. The initial £15 million was drawn from underspends within the education department. In subsequent years, specific money was put aside for the scheme.

If you are suggesting we do this all over the country, I can only agree with you. But if you were to suggest this government will do that I would suggest you take more water with it

Callistemon

^And why is everyone so damn fixated on Chalet girls and ski instructors as though they were the only jobs in the EU that have ever been open to our young people? They do get older and want something a bit more substantial in the way of employment.^

Because that is what the OP is about:
Already a huge problem for all those wanting to work in European resorts, be it in the leisure, sport or tourism of any form - and ski/snowboard instructors, sailing, surfing, etc. as 'equivalence' only applies to EU and Switzerland. Now those who aspire to be pilots, face the same problem as post-Brexit exclusion frustrates UK pilots as carriers seek EASA-licensed crews

The Ski Operators are now advertising for staff in all their resorts, requiring an EU passport for all staff, from cleaners, to reps and instructors.

How sad that opportunities for our grand-children are being dashed like this

I did say that ^Permanent careers in the EU for older people with qualifications are a different matter entirely.^

OK, I give in, Callistemon.

Naturally if the OP only mentions impediments to working in the EU as Chalet girls, ski instructors and pilots that has to be the sole range of missed opportunities to be discussed. I apologise for even thinking that there are others...

Perhaps someone else might start a thread about a further range of jobs in the EU which have become difficult or impossible for UK young people to access and then we could widen the discussion..

We do get castigated if threads meander from the OP and the intended topic of discussion so it seemed best to concentrate on that and not wander off the point.

Another thread would be a good idea.

As a parent whose DD worked as a pre-grad and post-grad in many European countries and whose DN benefited from the Erasmus scheme I am interested and not without a great deal of sympathy for those who might now find these life chances more difficult.

I think it's quite peculiar to worry about future job prospects - in terms of what's been available in the past. Things will have to change, and drastically, just to ensure their survival, health and wellbeing!

None of my children did anything like that. DD1 went into primary education and has worked as a teacher since she graduated with 2 maternity leaves, DS is a programmer working from home with a Spanish company who have home workers in US, Spain, Croatia but UK base in Brighton, DD2 is a CAMHS nurse with 1 maternity leave. They all had decided what career path they wanted before leaving school and followed it. Few of their schoolfriends went to ski resorts to work (or any resorts). Climate change - we are all doing our best. Have read the article (scary) about causes of climate change and acceleration but we are doing all we can to help (my family I mean not World Nations) and sometimes it is better to not concentrate on what horrors might or might not happen as no one actually knows and perhaps nature prevails in the end but none of us know how or when the end will be and you may waste a lot of time worrying about what may or might not happen.

To come to Europe used to be a kind of rite of passage for young Australians. All that has gone now along with all the lovely final year parties, deb balls , social events. My grandson is a year 12 student who has spent half the year being taught remotely at home. So,so sad. Same applies to uni students. Mostly they have to wear masks in school ( when they are allowed to go ) and 2 of my 3 teenage grandchildren have developed a rash round their mouths from this. We never had to cope with stuff like that. All the kids are the same, class doesn’t enter into it. Public transport is risky, not many use it now and at the moment we are only allowed to travel 5 kms to the next suburb. Our grandson has his driver’s license so he is lucky that way, thank goodness.

It’s telling that the working class school cited as doing well in exams caters mostly to children of non white immigrant backgrounds. There are schools in white working class areas which have no children doing A levels, do not teach any languages and where the GCSE results are amongst the lowest - what does that tell you?

vegansrock

It’s telling that the working class school cited as doing well in exams caters mostly to children of non white immigrant backgrounds. There are schools in white working class areas which have no children doing A levels, do not teach any languages and where the GCSE results are amongst the lowest - what does that tell you?

Possibly that immigrant families are more ambitious. That's not surprising because at some stage somebody has decided to move out of his/her comfort zone to seek a better life in another country and has made a big effort and possibly many sacrifices to do just that. Family support and motivation is at least as important as what happens in school.

nanna8

To come to Europe used to be a kind of rite of passage for young Australians. All that has gone now along with all the lovely final year parties, deb balls , social events. My grandson is a year 12 student who has spent half the year being taught remotely at home. So,so sad. Same applies to uni students. Mostly they have to wear masks in school ( when they are allowed to go ) and 2 of my 3 teenage grandchildren have developed a rash round their mouths from this. We never had to cope with stuff like that. All the kids are the same, class doesn’t enter into it. Public transport is risky, not many use it now and at the moment we are only allowed to travel 5 kms to the next suburb. Our grandson has his driver’s license so he is lucky that way, thank goodness.

With respect that’s because of Covid, not Brexit.

Callistemon

^And why is everyone so damn fixated on Chalet girls and ski instructors as though they were the only jobs in the EU that have ever been open to our young people? They do get older and want something a bit more substantial in the way of employment.^

Because that is what the OP is about:
Already a huge problem for all those wanting to work in European resorts, be it in the leisure, sport or tourism of any form - and ski/snowboard instructors, sailing, surfing, etc. as 'equivalence' only applies to EU and Switzerland. Now those who aspire to be pilots, face the same problem as post-Brexit exclusion frustrates UK pilots as carriers seek EASA-licensed crews

The Ski Operators are now advertising for staff in all their resorts, requiring an EU passport for all staff, from cleaners, to reps and instructors.

How sad that opportunities for our grand-children are being dashed like this

I did say that ^Permanent careers in the EU for older people with qualifications are a different matter entirely.^

Does that mean we can advertise jobs for people with only British passports. I find the whole EU passport thing as a posturing, anti equality jingoism, that many on here are quite happy to throw at the UK. EU totally anti everything unless it falls in line with their petty little rules.

Lincslass

Callistemon

And why is everyone so damn fixated on Chalet girls and ski instructors as though they were the only jobs in the EU that have ever been open to our young people? They do get older and want something a bit more substantial in the way of employment.

Because that is what the OP is about:
Already a huge problem for all those wanting to work in European resorts, be it in the leisure, sport or tourism of any form - and ski/snowboard instructors, sailing, surfing, etc. as 'equivalence' only applies to EU and Switzerland. Now those who aspire to be pilots, face the same problem as post-Brexit exclusion frustrates UK pilots as carriers seek EASA-licensed crews

The Ski Operators are now advertising for staff in all their resorts, requiring an EU passport for all staff, from cleaners, to reps and instructors.

How sad that opportunities for our grand-children are being dashed like this

I did say that ^Permanent careers in the EU for older people with qualifications are a different matter entirely.^

Does that mean we can advertise jobs for people with only British passports. I find the whole EU passport thing as a posturing, anti equality jingoism, that many on here are quite happy to throw at the UK. EU totally anti everything unless it falls in line with their petty little rules.

Protectionism is the word I was looking for. Fits perfectly.

This thread sounds like the old argument that old people should retiring so that youngsters can have their jobs etc. Ignoring the fact that the number of jobs in the economy is growing and the range of work is changing. The world of work is evolving - has always evolved.

What lies ahead for our grandchildren may be different to what we have experienced and expect for them. My profession came and went in my working life. DH spent his whole life in the energy industry, first designing tankers, then installing oil and gas platforms, but for the last 10 years has been installing windfarms. DD has had a succession of jobs, none of which existed when she started the previous one.

The world of work changes constantly. To quote a cliche: As one door closes, another door opens

Lincslass, I may be wrong but I thought they were advertising "EU passports or residency" as they are not looking to employ people with 3rd country status. They (quite reasonably) don't want the extra hassle of trying to employ people where there are visas and financial hoops to go through and where they may not get the application through, the person might be rejected for a Visa, and the company may need the security that they won't have to re-advertise last minute.

Here in the UK jobs adverts have asked for "proof of right to work" for years. In my case I've always taken my passport to job interviews so I don't see what's so very different about the UK doing this and the EU.

The real change now for us from the UK is that summer jobs in Europe are as difficult for us as they are for Nigerians or Americans.

We have chosen to opt out of freedom of movement. Why on earth do you think that being able to prove you have a right to work in the EU is posturing, anti equality jingoism?
We are basically doing the same thing!
If you want a summer job in a beach cafe here and don't live here or have a UK passport, this is how you do it:
www.caterer.com/advice/coming-to-work-in-the-uk