Animals don’t belong in the Olympics

lemongrove

Interesting factoid....oxen ( plural) and bretheren ( plural) are the only two examples now, as the ‘es’ ending for plurals which
Started with the Normans, took over.
Shoes used to be shoen etc.
I expect a poster will now be along with another example I hadn’t heard of.?

This is part of a poem I learnt at school. England. 1950s.

Tippetytoes the smallest elf sat on a mushroom by himself
Playing a little tinkling tune

“Red are the hips and red are the haws
Red and gold are the leaves that fall
Red is the big round harvest moon
And red are my new little dancing shoon “

Having owned horses for many years and a DD who competed in ODE (one day events) which include dressage, showjumping and cross country. I can honestly say that it is impossible to get a horse to do something it doesn’t want to do.

You can beat them (never have, never would and quickly disassociated myself with anyone I found out did so) cajole them and even plead with them but the bottom line is if they don’t want to do something then they just won’t!

As others have posted to ride professionally you need to be both physically and mentally fit.

What happens to those horses that don’t make the grade or refuse to cooperate. I expect it’s the knackers yard for many of them.
I think skateboarding, kayaking and the like are far more about athleticism than dressage btw.

As someone who owns and rides a dressage horse I can confirm that it is extremely hard work and requires a lot of core strength. I've only ridden up to Advanced Medium level and had a bit of a play with passage and piaffe on a schoolmaster but it is really tricky, there's a huge amount of skill required to ride through a Grand Prix test and the horse also needs to be extremely fit and correctly muscled. I'd be sad to see equestrian sports go from the Olympics but wouldn't be sorry to see the showjumping go from the Modern Pentathlon, it's a big ask to get on a strange horse for 20 minutes then jump a 1.20m course and only a few competitors seem able to do it well. My lovely mare injured herself in the field and has been off work for 5 months, if she was a wild horse she'd almost certainly be dead but fortunately for her I'm willing and able to give her every chance to recover. I think she has a pretty nice life and even if she can't be ridden again she has a home for life.

vegansrock

What happens to those horses that don’t make the grade or refuse to cooperate. I expect it’s the knackers yard for many of them.
I think skateboarding, kayaking and the like are far more about athleticism than dressage btw.

They are often sold-on for general hacking, lower level competitions or stud.

vegansrock

What happens to those horses that don’t make the grade or refuse to cooperate. I expect it’s the knackers yard for many of them.
I think skateboarding, kayaking and the like are far more about athleticism than dressage btw.

Well, with your vast experience, vegansrock I would have thought that you already know the answer to that question...

But I'm not sure what you're debating about now. Is it just on the question of whether or not horse sports should be included in the Olympics, or is it that you think that people shouldn't ride or drive horses for pleasure or sport?

vegansrock

What happens to those horses that don’t make the grade or refuse to cooperate. I expect it’s the knackers yard for many of them.
I think skateboarding, kayaking and the like are far more about athleticism than dressage btw.

I have an AC who still skateboards (and rides) and AC who still ride, both equally physically demanding.

MaizieD something we agree on

I always thought horses and riding was included in the Olympics because horse racing and riding was thought to be in the original games. Perhaps its just the Ben Hur influence.

I have never commented in this thread on whether horses should be used for riding or sport. Just on whether horses should be in the Olympics. Others have strayed into different territory, which is fine. I wonder how many dressage riders also skateboard ( another related topic).

vegansrock

What happens to those horses that don’t make the grade or refuse to cooperate. I expect it’s the knackers yard for many of them.
I think skateboarding, kayaking and the like are far more about athleticism than dressage btw.

Your posts are moving from thought for the horses to rudeness and rubbish vegansrock. Such a shame to see someone complain without finding out the facts.

NfkDumpling

I always thought horses and riding was included in the Olympics because horse racing and riding was thought to be in the original games. Perhaps its just the Ben Hur influence.

The original Olympic Games were to promote / display warrior skills.

This site says that chariot racing was introduced in the 7th C BC. No mention of ridden races.

classicalwisdom.com/culture/sport/the-ancient-olympic-games-in-greece/

That's an interesting link Maizie. Thank you. (I now have visions of naked Ben Hur type chariot races. Perhaps for the next Olympics?)

vegansrock

I have never commented in this thread on whether horses should be used for riding or sport. Just on whether horses should be in the Olympics. Others have strayed into different territory, which is fine. I wonder how many dressage riders also skateboard ( another related topic).

My son

I think they were naked in the original olympics.

The athletes were naked not the horses.

I have been riding horses since 1961 and have (continually) owned them since 1970. I've owned everything (on two continents) from native British ponies to champion show horses and also gentled/trained untouched wild American Mustangs. I've done gymkhanas, show jumped, rode to hounds (to save the fox btw) and worked cattle on horse back on our American ranch - I can honestly say that I understand the soul and mind of the horse.

Horses love and need a job. Some horses love to compete and when they do they fully understand what and why they are doing it. They are not being beaten into doing 'tricks' - you cannot make a horse do something he doesn't want to do

Horses win our hearts and become our heroes.

The great little Stroller is still my hero;
www.saddlebox.net/horse-stories-the-legendary-stroller-and-marion-coakes/

My own dear horse is buried under the apple tree in my garden.

People who think it must take violence or coercion for the human equine relationship to work are ignorant horse haters. They believe the horse to be a stupid dumb animal who doesn't understand what's going on or what he's doing. They believe the only thing a horse understands is that he will get hurt or get a beating if he doesn't do as he's told. These people look down on horses as they strive to break the long bond between horses and humans, a bond that has lasted for thousands of years. They won't be happy until the domesticate horse has been set free to live his life as a neglected feral animal or destroyed out of kindness and his lovely but dead body fed to dogs or people.

Horses have been domesticated for thousands of years and need people as we need them. The mustangs are domesticated horses who have been feral for hundreds of years, but even on the vast expanses of the American west they do not always fair well and so they are being captured and corralled.

I have heard the ignorant murmurs against a horses being even ridden or driven getting louder over the years and I believe there will be a day when European horse lovers are drowned out and it becomes illegal for horses to do any kind of work - which will be a very sad day for the wonderful & workable bond.

Furthermore; horses travel in the lap of luxury to international competitions and to say otherwise is more evidence of the willful ignorance from despicable horse haters for comparing horses to meat animals being shipped great distance for slaughter.

Veganstock, my thoughts exactly.

* Boogaloo* good on you for loving and caring for horses, but to dismiss some other sentient creatures as “meat animals” ignores the fact that some horses are transported great distances for slaughter and are themselves meat animals .

Well, as we now seem to have established that the original Olympic Games were essentially the showcase for skills needed in war. and that it included chariot racing, it seems that including equestrian disciplines is not deviating from the original Ancient Greek concept. Even dressage, which has developed from the training of horses for war, which were expected to be able to speedily and obediently perform useful actions for fighting in battle.

I think that qualifies them for inclusion

MaizieD

Well, as we now seem to have established that the original Olympic Games were essentially the showcase for skills needed in war. and that it included chariot racing, it seems that including equestrian disciplines is not deviating from the original Ancient Greek concept. Even dressage, which has developed from the training of horses for war, which were expected to be able to speedily and obediently perform useful actions for fighting in battle.

I think that qualifies them for inclusion

Abso-bloody-lutely

MaizieD

Well, as we now seem to have established that the original Olympic Games were essentially the showcase for skills needed in war. and that it included chariot racing, it seems that including equestrian disciplines is not deviating from the original Ancient Greek concept. Even dressage, which has developed from the training of horses for war, which were expected to be able to speedily and obediently perform useful actions for fighting in battle.

I think that qualifies them for inclusion

Totally.

Going back to the part the horses play in equestrian events.....

I can't remember what happened in previous Olympics, but the norm in normal times, at the conclusion of most horse-riding competitions, is for both the horse and rider to be in the ring and be presented with the prize. The rider's prize might be cash or a trophy, and the horse gets a rosette and sometimes a sort of ribbon sash to go round its neck. I doubt the horse is much impressed by the ribbons, but it does at least acknowledge that the horse played a part in the achievement.

Just because something happened in Ancient Greek original Olympics does not mean they should be in the MODERN Olympics. That is a weak argument. Times move on. There are lots of things that were in the original ones we wouldn’t want now. Plus a lot more sports included which have zero to do with warfare thank goodness.

Just because something happened in Ancient Greek original Olympics does not mean they should be in the MODERN Olympics

But I thought that was your original point

Given that the Olympics are supposed to be about human athleticism, I fail to see why events such as dressage and showjumping are allowed
Or is it just equestrian sports you are so het up about?
These are the dates of the first inclusion of different sports in the modern Olympiad

Diving (1904)
Swimming (1896)
Synchronized Swimming (1984)
Water Polo (1900)
Flatwater (1936)
Slalom (1972)
Road Cycling (1896)
Track Cycling (1896)
Mountain Biking (1996)
BMX (2008)
Jumping (1900)
Dressage (1912)
Eventing (1912)
Artistic Gymnastics (1896)
Rhythmic Gymnastics (1984)
Trampoline (2000)
Volleyball (1964)
Beach Volleyball (1996)
Greco-Roman (1896)
Freestyle (1904)
You will see that Jumping and a dressage featured for the first time in the second Games of 1900 .

If you check out the evolution of the modern Olympic Games it is fascinating to see what has come and gone.

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