The Rage of the Incels

Maggiemaybe I am not sure the men who commit these crimes have thought about publicity. Most such attacks end with suicide, so the perpetrator, won't see any of it anyway.

I think there only motive is to get even with those that they see as causing their problems and society in general that permitted their perceived wrongs and they get a visceral pleasure from seeing the people they gun down fall and die.

While I understand Jacinda Ardern's view, I am very uneasy about it, because it means that you are censoring news, names are not published, nothing said, and that can be the start of a slippery slope of gradually thinking of other persons/crimes/events that are better not reported until no news is heavily censored news.

lemongrove

The main worry is how and why this young man with mental health concerns could so easily acquire a shotgun.He didn’t belong to a gun club and he didn’t work on a farm so what possible reason is there for him to have one?
Looks like even stronger protocols will have to be put into effect now around shotguns.Late...but may prevent another tragedy in the future.

I completely agree with this. With perhaps the exception of farmers nobody in this country needs a pump action shot gun.

Why are we allowing 22 year old men who live in cities and work at engineering firms to own a lethal weapon for which they can have no possible legitimate need?

I hadn’t heard of this group of men either. We know there have always been what are known as weirdos. I knew some where I grew up and there are one or two in my village. One still lives with his mother. So, another thing to blame on women. However much we believe it isn’t, this is a man’s world. The one advantage men have over women is their physical strength. I really can’t think of anything else. The only way men can be made to understand how they should behave is from childhood. But talk of role models, youth groups etc., is always difficult.

AGAA4

Collateral damage more than targets. The word Terrorist will always have an impact however often it is used Alegrias.

He went outside his mother's house, wondered the streets for about 10 minutes and shot everyone he saw. That's not collateral damage.

Collateral damage more than targets. The word Terrorist will always have an impact however often it is used Alegrias.

I agree with your no doubt unpopular view, Alegrias1. Until we know more about the case, all this speculation is pointless.

AGAA4

Incels are terrorists. Anyone who incites and carries out violence towards a group they hate, in this case women, are terrorists.

Two of the people who died were male.

We have no idea why he did what he did.

Its convenient and easy to think he did it because of his affiliation with other Incels but my (no doubt unpopular) view is that we don't know that.

Nobody rushed to call the perpetrators of the Dunblane and Hungerford massacres terrorists. To overuse a word is to weaken its impact.

The main worry is how and why this young man with mental health concerns could so easily acquire a shotgun.He didn’t belong to a gun club and he didn’t work on a farm so what possible reason is there for him to have one?
Looks like even stronger protocols will have to be put into effect now around shotguns.Late...but may prevent another tragedy in the future.

After a terrorist attack in Christchurch, Jacinda Ardern was widely praised for her speech to the New Zealand parliament.

I implore you, speak the names of those who were lost rather than the name of the man who took them. He is a terrorist. He is a criminal. He is an extremist. But he will, when I speak, be nameless.

Relatives of the victims of US shootings have started campaign groups, amongst them No Notoriety and Don't Name Them, arguing for no name, no photo and no notoriety. challenging the media to deprive violent like-minded individuals the media celebrity and media spotlight they so crave, explaining that giving attackers publicity allows the shooter to accomplish one of his goals, and validates his life and actions.

I for one would like to see our media outlets take this into consideration before splashing the gunman's face and twisted views all over our newspapers and playing his YouTube videos on every news bulletin.

It's terrible. Angry, misunderstood and sexually frustrated young men have been around for quite a long time but they seem so much worse these days and egg each other on with their horrible, extreme ideas.

On our sister site MN many young women express how fed up they are at being treated so badly, largely due no doubt to the proliferation of porn. The 'good guys' seem so rare. What is going so wrong with the modern world?

When our generation was struggling for equality I'm sure the horrors of today aren't quite what we had in mind. It seems that every step forward that has made is tempered by another step backwards.

Incels are terrorists. Anyone who incites and carries out violence towards a group they hate, in this case women, are terrorists.

Anyone who licks up a gun and shoots people because they do not share his world view is a terrorist. He sets out to inspire terror and kill people. How is that different from any other terrorist?

Whether a terrorist is a member of the IRA, UDA, Al Q'aeda, ISIS or an animal rights supporter. Their terrorism usually begins in a personal setback that funnels them towards a group who share those views and then to the part of it that inspires and incites terrorism.

The Incel movement has been around for 5-10 years or more, mainly in the US/Canada, but with the internet spreading out, it is inevitable it would spread overseas. This is not the first and will not be the last Incel massacre.

Life seems to be getting more and more unsafe for women.

I have heard of incels and grouped together via the internet they can become dangerous individuals. Most, hopefully, will be happy to rant and talk about violence without carrying it through. As there are more and more of them there will be some who are unstable enough to carry out attacks.

Perhaps we should wait and see what the investigation into this turns up, instead of automatically pointing the finger at the police?

I just cannot understand why the police returned his firearm to him. You are supposed to have references from pillars of the community such as a priest or a doctor and it has to be kept in a locked cabinet. Seems like lack of care to me.

They have added a question into this week's Any Answers that asks much the same question I did. It will be interesting to hear what is said.

These sort of crimes have mostly always ben committed by loners and social misfits - incel is just another name for them - a label to group themselves around and to justify their anger.

Will misandry also be classed as a hate crime Blinko

Alegrias1

I googled him.

He thinks you can treat autism with homeopathy and is a climate change denier.

Says it all, I think.

Probably a fully paid up member of the Flat Earth Society too.

Reading about the online groups of these of mainly men, although a few women have managed to infiltrate, the majority seem to be under 30 and started with many late teens.

It does seem that the internet encourages groups to get angrier and angrier about human interaction. Now, this could, at times, be for the good. A political solution might need to be found. However, resorting to action like this recent one must surely come under the heading of terrorism or something similar.

Oops sorry it’s a private members bill by Wera Hobhouse (LibDem)

There is currently a Bill going through Parliament to have Misogyny flagged as a Hate Crime, the Bills full title A Bill to make motivation by misogyny an aggravating factor in criminal sentencing, to require police forces to record hate crimes motivated by misogyny, and for connected purposes

I see Alegrias has already posted some of that..

I only heard about incels a few months ago. It as in relation to violent at cks but I don't remember if it was fact or fiction.

I certainly would call this a terrorist attack - the fact that it is from within the apparently mainstream community doesn't make it less so.

The twattish tweet is absolutely horrifying- that that sort of view is held, and is published without sanction, plus the failure to recognize misogynistic terrorism as a hate crime, makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Lucca

What ???
Anti man rhetoric from teachers ?

Who is this person ?

Have a look at his timeline.

Looks to be an anti-vaxx, anti-mask, anti lockdown sort of guy. And a homeopath...

twitter.com/AlanFreestone/with_replies