Refugees

Is it out of focus or are my eyes out of focus?
Could be either these days.

Some of my experiences.
We live in France and travel regularly back to the U.K.
The refugee situation at the channel ports is a real problem- last time we used the Caen crossing to Portsmouth- we followed a lorry into Ouistream from the perifique round Caen, as we left the fuel carriageway and at every roundabout there were well organised gangs of African looking males- from what looked like 12 years old. They climbed on the back of moving trucks, on the top, got inside. It was actually pretty scary - at the port we saw many young men being dragged out of lorries by the duannes. We no longer park up in the town or by the beach before crossing.

I go to a language class in our local town/ French for foreigners. Lots of different nationalities- all learning French and about French culture. To get their “carte de sejour” they have to pass an exam in French, written and spoken.
Who would you turn away? The Somali boys who had trekked north, crossed the sea, walked across France and Spain paid for by their families hoping for a better life? Nice lads most of them- not running away from anything other than grinding poverty and towards prosperity and opportunity.
The Marrocan young woman who had fled from her abusive husband and his family?
The Syrian family who had run from Isis? The stories they told - a cousin abducted and raped, the grandfather tied to a lamppost to be burnt alive (he escaped when his neighbour cut him free while the fighters rounded up other victims) and more.

As climate change gets worse, Europe will have to address the issue of refugees from climate change - there will be so many.

The current situation of refugees fleeing war in the Middle East and now Afghanistan has been made so much worse by the actions of the west.
It is despicable that people who helped the western countries or accepted a more western way have now just been abandoned to their fate.

My only problem with helping all these that do need help is where do we house them all safely? We have so many people living rough & many families in terrible rental properties. Will these incomers feel safe & welcome? I hope so but do think it should be accepted by other countries that we are only a small island & that bigger countries with more room should think about taking more . Does this make sense as I worry that these poor people will be out of the frying pan & into the fire if we try to take too many? Wish we had the room for them all but logically we do not. Very sad!

OK ....all good messages BUT where are we going to put all these new incomers ? already accommodation is in short supply with all those arriving on the beaches ....yesterday there was a warning that some of these asylum seekers have been found carrying guns .........what !!! who are we letting into this country ? In years gone by we welcomed refugees from all countries ...Jewish people integrated very well and on the whole caused no problems and carried on their own religion whilst otherwise becoming valuable members of society. Likewise the Ugandan asian who arrived when Idi Armein threw them out .......and the Asian people who arrived have made useful and valuable contributions to society, many becoming doctors, nurse and are valued. BUT the latest batches of those coming to the UK appear to have little idea of western culture, continue to demand different food, have a different religion and beliefs as to the clothes they wear ...I lived in France where the Burka is forbidden ....a good thing, a of course it immediately stands out so everyone knows that the wearer is a follower of a certain religion and therefore a target of any one who disagrees with their beliefs, If all these people are to come to the UK then insistence must be made that they make all attempts to integrate and not stand out. Teachers and social services are overloaded already with numbers of children that do not speak English in their classes. In other countries (such as France) schools insist that children wishing to join the education system from other countries must be taught the language before they can join the school. This often involves (for English speakers) private lessons paid for by the parents. Quite right too ! All those from any country who assisted the British forces in interpretation etc should be first in line for help in re locating and something has to be done to relieve the already enormous tax burden as well as the overwhelming of the NHS, Social Services, housing and education that will happen ...and sadly there are already generations of British citizens living here for all their lives who are unable to access social care, medical treatment, housing, etc ...........no mention has been made of helping them .....the fact that people are living on the streets and having to see all incomers being offered a roof over their heads, money, education and medical care must be horrendous ...no wonder the suicide rate is increasing, I am glad I don;t have to solve this problem !

hmmm!?

I wonder how many good people have come into the UK in this last crisis caused by the western world?

And look at the only one posters are discussing!

I have a feeling there are many "silent" top to bottomer's on GN. In fact, we know there are from the Brexit debacle.

This conversation feels very Johnathan Swift. Swift used the big-endians and little-endians and their continuous war to represent the Catholics and Protestants. Two groups with belief in the same God but determined theirs was the only route to reach Him.

Perhaps that's what we have here, although I feel too involved with standing up for people fleeing desperate lives to work it out - sadly.

Sarnia

DiamondLily

He was arrested, as he is on a “no fly” list, but was released after being considered safe by security services.
metro.co.uk/2021/08/23/afghanistan-person-on-no-fly-list-evacuated-to-uk-amid-confusion-15141061/

Let's hope they're correct, then. There have been far too many people killed in atrocities carried out by suspected terrorists who were deemed 'safe'.

That’s right and all by British born nationals.

DiamondLily

He was arrested, as he is on a “no fly” list, but was released after being considered safe by security services.
metro.co.uk/2021/08/23/afghanistan-person-on-no-fly-list-evacuated-to-uk-amid-confusion-15141061/

Let's hope they're correct, then. There have been far too many people killed in atrocities carried out by suspected terrorists who were deemed 'safe'.

He was arrested, as he is on a “no fly” list, but was released after being considered safe by security services.
metro.co.uk/2021/08/23/afghanistan-person-on-no-fly-list-evacuated-to-uk-amid-confusion-15141061/

Sky News say person was arrested at BHX airport.

Heard on Newsnight that it's ok - false info.

A terrorist on the 'no-fly' list has already arrived in England from Kabul. It was on the news this afternoon. S/he landed at Birmingham airport. Have not heard yet if s/he is in custody or free. This is why the armed forces are having to check papers very carefully. Obviously not carefully enough in this case.

I am well aware that C of E schools welcome all faiths WW, but not all faiths want to sent their children to Christian schools. And I really do hope that there is no reason for panic, moral or otherwise.

So clever and acutely observed. I can hear these "bottom to top" voices ringing in ,my ears and have done more and more since 2016.

dumpling Rather thinking you have too vivid a imagination I suspect it is quite the opposite. You are assuming a single culture, and schools that are not open to all faiths. You couldn’t be more wrong, Cof E schools welcome children of all faiths and none.

Your posts sounds like so many examples of moral panic that we see all for no reason.

I like to think I'm a bottom to top person, but the practical side of me can also see the problems of importing such a different culture into our own en masse. City folk would probably be able to integrate more easily, but even then where I live the vast majority of schools are C of E. And the ones I would really want to get out are the women and children. And then what about the Syrians. Should they not all come too if they wish? Not to mention Somalia. And ...

There has to be some criteria. And what checks can there be on the backgrounds of those coming in the short time frame available.. I gather ISIS is already becoming a problem. A small distraction on the tarmac and a suicide bomber on a rescue plane. But I know, I have too vivid an imagination and it couldn't possibly happen.

GillT57

We must not assume that all refugees are suitable only for fruit picking or meat processing though WWMk2, many will be doctors, teachers, shopkeepers, just like anywhere. Subject to language help, I would like to think that these people can integrate into all positions in society, and get on with their lives.

I agree.
The many Afghan interpreters speak English well and of course could help other Afghan refugees here with any language problems which would be very useful.

GillT57

We must not assume that all refugees are suitable only for fruit picking or meat processing though WWMk2, many will be doctors, teachers, shopkeepers, just like anywhere. Subject to language help, I would like to think that these people can integrate into all positions in society, and get on with their lives.

Absolutely! I so agree.

A man who fled Afghanistan years ago aged 15 unable to speak English is now a doctor. We need these people to fill all the vacancies in the NHS, haulage and hospitality. We should be welcoming them with open arms.
Definitely bottom to top for me.
.

Oh, and great post! That upside down list is very poignant.

We must not assume that all refugees are suitable only for fruit picking or meat processing though WWMk2, many will be doctors, teachers, shopkeepers, just like anywhere. Subject to language help, I would like to think that these people can integrate into all positions in society, and get on with their lives.

We need people like vegetable pickers and meat processing, they could be so useful doing these jobs. Apparently turkeys will be in short supply because there is no one to care for them or to process them.

That was very well written and we hope everyone will be humanitarian.

I have watched much of the sadness and chaos going on in Afghanistan and when I hear that not all of the people will get out I think that surely they can all come to U.K although I think that may be an impossibility. As I watched yesterday I was thinking that other places can take some of them perhaps Spain, Greece, or Italy and just as I thought Italy the broadcaster said an Italian flight had just taken off with many onboard so something at least. What about Gibraltor or is it too far away. Anywhere they can go as they cannot be left there.

Very well written Whitewave both up and down are truly representative of people's feelings about the refugee problem.

Thank you WW. So clever.
I hope these refugees will be integrated quickly into our society without long waits to re-qualify for the jobs they were doing & "Right to Work" paperwork.

We will need more interpreters & support workers - schools especially, medical staff, catering, I'm sure there are many more.