Fingers crossed for Pen Farthing and Nowzad

Alegrias ' In the name of the wee man'. I haven't heard that phrase for years! So pleased to be reminded.
As you were. Back to the thread.

Alegrias1

^They obviously did. Animals came to the UK, people who needed to didn't.^

I wonder why more people aren't outraged by the fact that they managed to find space for an SUV in between the people on an evacuation flight?

The SUV on the plane was answered the other day on one of the news programmes, apparently it was a spy armoured vehicle packed to the gills with computer equipment which had the Taliban got hold of would have been disastrous.

Alegrias1

^They obviously did. Animals came to the UK, people who needed to didn't.^

I wonder why more people aren't outraged by the fact that they managed to find space for an SUV in between the people on an evacuation flight?

Why and indeed, who are you to question other people's consciences? Have you taken orders in some animal cult? You must have known this would be an area where people would hold different views. This is not a debate it is a sermon.

Fair enough GG13

But by the ethics of this thread, humans always come first. They could have destroyed the truck and got more humans on the flight. Not that I am advocating that, or even suggesting that it was possible, but people seem more activated by evacuating animals than they are by evacuating lumps of metal and electronics.

Alegrias1

Fair enough GG13

But by the ethics of this thread, humans always come first. They could have destroyed the truck and got more humans on the flight. Not that I am advocating that, or even suggesting that it was possible, but people seem more activated by evacuating animals than they are by evacuating lumps of metal and electronics.

I get what you are saying.

(Wait and we what happens when they realise Geronimo the alpaca has been euthanised today)

But by the ethics of this thread, humans always come first.

God, but your nose has been put out of joint by one person not worshipping you as the second coming.

No one, but no one has determined the ethics of this thread or any other thread, although you seem to be trying very hard to be the one who does.

PippaZ, you are blowing this out of all proportion and now you're getting personal.

I'm off to Tescos.

Alegrias1

*PippaZ*, you are blowing this out of all proportion and now you're getting personal.

I'm off to Tescos.

And lying about what I had said in order to score a point isn't getting personal?

Enjoy your trip out. It might calm you down.

Do I detect a note of hysteria creeping onto this thread? Much more and GNHQ will be along to delete it ?

Whitewavemark2

It has been suggested that Johnson’s wife intervened to get the animals to the U.K.

None of the staff working with Farthing were allowed to come to the U.K.

None of the staff working with Farthing were allowed to come to the U.K.
I would refer you to the posts where it's shown that the Staff had Visa's in place but - like a normal airport where they look at your passport and then at you to ensure that it's the same person, the processing facility was shut down on Thursday before the Staff got to that point. So you are absolutely correct, none of the staff working with Farthing were allowed to come to the UK because of this and nothing else. Not a case of Johnson's wife only wanting the animals here and not the people, if that is what is suggested.

Whitewavemark2

It has been suggested that Johnson’s wife intervened to get the animals to the U.K.

None of the staff working with Farthing were allowed to come to the U.K.

I am quietly hoping here that one of the rescue cats or dogs gets a home at No 10.

PippaZ, personally I don't mind if you don't or can't see the arguments put here, I think the facts of the case for both sides have been presented and debated. But will you allow that it's never been a case of animals before people?

A privately chartered plane managed to leave Kabul with around 200 animals. There was space for a few hundred humans but for whatever reason they couldn't get on the plane.

Uproar - animals prioritised over humans.

Fact - thousands of people, most with valid paperwork were left behind. Would there not have been prioritising going on if the UK and US forces had stayed just that little bit longer? Whole families were trying to leave. Would the elderly and/or infirm have been left behind? Apparently Whitehall estimates that 9000 people eligible for resettlement in the UK were left behind.

It really is about time the arguments for and against the animals ceased and whether Pen Farthing was likeable or not.

It is however, about time more time was given to thinking how badly this govt and the US have behaved and about the blame game that ministers and there staff are playing.

Let us not forget ALL the other countries involved in this
www.gulf-times.com/story/699243/Nato-countries-have-a-duty-to-take-in-Afghans-says
America called the shots, and not all Afghans were eligible to come to the UK. Saying that, allowing this private jet to take a slot which could have been used to fly out Afghans, despicable.

Wonder if it had a jacuzzi on board? Or an on-board masseuse? That's what private jets are like, isn't it? Wouldn't put it past him.

Wonder if it had a jacuzzi on board? Or an on-board masseuse? That's what private jets are like, isn't it? Wouldn't put it past him

Only for the animals.

And now the US has abandoned its own military dogs out there. They should hang their heads in shame. These dogs play such a valuable role in military life and should be treated like any other members of the US forces. It is absolutely unforgivable that they should be left like this.

LondonMzFitz

PippaZ, personally I don't mind if you don't or can't see the arguments put here, I think the facts of the case for both sides have been presented and debated. But will you allow that it's never been a case of animals before people?

I don't know how many times I haveto say I have read and understood your arguments. However, I disagree with the premise you are trying to force on others. I do not think we should have even attempted to bring out these animals while people were unable to leave. What greater insult you can make to a Muslim than suggest an animal is of more importance than they are? Whether or not that is the case, that is how it will appear.

I appreciate that you cannot or will not see that I don't look at this the way you do. You seem to be entirely ignorant of other people's views on this - unless they are political. Therefore you insist on politicising my views. But they are nothing to do with politics. The animals, as far as I am concerned, should have been left where they were.

PippaZ

LondonMzFitz

PippaZ, personally I don't mind if you don't or can't see the arguments put here, I think the facts of the case for both sides have been presented and debated. But will you allow that it's never been a case of animals before people?

I don't know how many times I haveto say I have read and understood your arguments. However, I disagree with the premise you are trying to force on others. I do not think we should have even attempted to bring out these animals while people were unable to leave. What greater insult you can make to a Muslim than suggest an animal is of more importance than they are? Whether or not that is the case, that is how it will appear.

I appreciate that you cannot or will not see that I don't look at this the way you do. You seem to be entirely ignorant of other people's views on this - unless they are political. Therefore you insist on politicising my views. But they are nothing to do with politics. The animals, as far as I am concerned, should have been left where they were.

Gosh, I certainly didn't mean to come across as you seem to be suggesting. I've got my cool and collected head on today (ranty head was firmly fixed until Pen got out of Afghanistan) when it was taken off (Worzel Gummidge style) and tucked away until next needed. Honestly and without sarcasm, I'm disappointed you seem to feel you are being needled by my comments.

I don't believe I'm being ignorant of other people's views; I will admit to being hugely irritated by the poster that only partly read an article, then misquoted it, and said she despised Pen. And those who have come on to parrot the nameless (gutless) government sources from the last week in what I firmly believe to be a concerted attack from one particular demographic (dipping toe in politics) against Pen.

But I'm happy to disagree (and again no sarcasm from me), The animals, as far as I am concerned, should have been left where they were unless they could have been taken to the UK where they can be rehomed.

Blondiescot

And now the US has abandoned its own military dogs out there. They should hang their heads in shame. These dogs play such a valuable role in military life and should be treated like any other members of the US forces. It is absolutely unforgivable that they should be left like this.

tossers

So by a certain poster’s reasoning it’s irrelevant whether anymore Afghans could get on the charter plane or not? The fact that they are animals means they should suffer pain, starvation and death.

As for it affecting these people more because they’re Muslims? The people driving this mad situation are Muslims; it’s their fellow Muslims they’re fleeing from.

As someone else pointed out the US have abandoned all the military dogs. What a despicable lot they are. Absolutely shameful.

I think you may have been on the end of a message to a few LondonMzFitz. I apologise if you got an undeservedly full blast

Blaming one bloke is a nonsense

No-one is saying that it is his fault so many people didnt get out, Some are pointing out that:

*Soldiers (whether British or American, doesn't matter!) WERE pulled away from processing/working with people to deal with animals. If the animals had been left that would not have happened. They should not have been a priority for the soldiers precious time
*Animals were evacuated whilst so many people were not which is a serious mistake on any level, least of all from a Muslim country...from a humane angle, a PR angle or any other angle!

Surely the people we should be blaming here are the Taliban? If they hadn't got such a murderous cruel attitude to people and animals then both could have been left behind without a worry. As it is they are both cruel and murderous which makes life hell on earth for both. I agree about the Americans leaving their dogs behind to certain death probably by torture. How could they? They get more vile everyday.

If they couldn't bring the dogs out they should have had the balls to put them down humanely before they left. I agree Janejudge "tossers*