Uncouth Angela Rayner doing Labour no favours

This is precisely why the Conservatives will get in again. Labour need to drop this woman and fast! They are fast becoming the 'nasty rabble party'.

NoPippaZ I don’t. I think she was beyond the line in the way she expressed what she thought, and she should apologise. I respect people who can say what they think in a way that is crystal clear without being offensive or personally insulting, there’s just no need for that. And I have to say, Mark Drakeford is nobody’s puppet.

love0c

This is precisely why the Conservatives will get in again. Labour need to drop this woman and fast! They are fast becoming the 'nasty rabble party'.

As opposed to the 'look down on the peasants and let them die of covid' party.

She said what a lot of people think. I agree with her.

I totally agree with what she said- but not the words she used. She is in a powerful rôle, and she must have known that such words not acceptable, especially in an official speech and not a private conversation that was inadvertently picked up.

As teachers, we know that this would not be acceptable in the classroom, so why would it be acceptable at Conference with press present.

As said, I admire her and totally agree with her- but honestly she should have known better, and apologised in such a way that she meant it, but accepted the word used was inappropriate- she would have gained a lot of respect for doing that.

Casdon

Mark Drakeford today was able to say what amounted to the same thing but in a much more controlled and professional way. I think this is what we should be aiming for.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/mark-drakeford-labour-conference-brighton-21689731

I cannot imagine him using the language of the gutter or making offensive jokes such as those made by some politicians of all parties.
We know how strongly he feels about Johnson and his Government but expresses himself professionally.

I used to think he was rather like a kindly, mild headmaster but he is proving he has a core of steel.

I think many will agree with AR but not some of the language used.
Yes Mark Drakeford damned them so much better.

Despite facing the worst Conservative government for decades under May this lot still couldn't win. And now you can see why.

Angela Raynor "I left School at 16, Pregnant and with No Qualifications". She Said "I`m No Scumbag" But She uses the Language that`s expected from a Scumbag

Even the masters of spin can’t make anything positive out of the sh*t shower that’s happening

^ As opposed to the 'look down on the peasants and let them die of covid' party^ hyperbolic nonsense GagaJo - did you attend the same Miss Piggy Charm School as Ms. Rayner?

The furore over Angela Rayner’s use of the word ‘scum’ reminds me of the time an internationally renowned speaker (Tony Campolo) addressed a huge Christian convention thus:

“I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a shit. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”

It’s not just the use of the word scum though grannyactivist it’s the stream of invective that went with it. There is a line between appropriate use of insults to make a point, and looking inarticulate because you go too far.

grannyactivist....there’s a reason in itself to avoid going to
A Christian convention, having to listen to twerps like that.
No, they wouldn’t be concerned with him saying the word ‘shit’ but they certainly would be offended that he said that
‘They didn’t give a shit’ about the children.

Casdon

It’s not just the use of the word scum though grannyactivist it’s the stream of invective that went with it. There is a line between appropriate use of insults to make a point, and looking inarticulate because you go too far.

Exactly.
What part of that are posters either not comprehending or are refusing to countenance?

The exact words that AR reportedly used were:

“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”

With the exception of the word scum I’m pretty certain that most of these words have been used on GN to describe how individuals view the current government, with particular reference to to the Prime Minister.

It’s not language I would use myself and I do absolutely believe that our politicians should be setting a more measured tone in their political discourse, but I am dismayed that so much manufactured hype has been made of a single rant when, as a country, there are real issues to get worked up about.

As an aside, it also begs the question about why remarks made by other MPs have not been subject to similar scrutiny. E.g. A recent ‘joke’ that was made about sending a bomb to the office of an MP of the opposing party, which has barely been made mention of.

lemongrove

Casdon

It’s not just the use of the word scum though grannyactivist it’s the stream of invective that went with it. There is a line between appropriate use of insults to make a point, and looking inarticulate because you go too far.

Exactly.
What part of that are posters either not comprehending or are refusing to countenance?

I understand what you are saying and am not surprised to find you saying it. No problems with my comprehension. The "stream of invective" summed up well what I feel so why should I disagree. I might not have said it in that way but for once it sounded like a politician speaking the truth.

However, you appear to need everyone to think like you both, sound like you both and be clones of you both. You appear to be rules-driven; don't do this, do do that or you cannot be allowed to have freedom of thought or speech. Stepford would no doubt welcome you.

Shall we buy our pastel dresses and high heels now Casdon or wait for the Sales??

All I am saying is that everyone is not the same, does not speak in the same way and does not believe in the same things. Wanting your own freedoms is one thing. Trying to deprive others of their quite another.

I wish she had found a more eloquent and cutting description for the government, instead of sounding as if she were auditioning for a part in 'Eastenders'. She won't have much hope of strutting the world stage at some point in the future unless she can - as one commentator put it today - represent her class by showing some.

PippaZ I think you’ll find that lemongrove and I come from different perspectives politically - what we are agreed on though is that Angela Rayner went too far.
I admire passion and commitment - but I do think politicians should be able to make their point effectively without using invective. As I said before, Mark Drakeford said the same thing but much more effectively than she did yesterday - and he is actually doing the job. (or is he a clone too?).

I agree with Casdon and *lemongrove (but do I have to wear high heels? ??

When someone resorts to language like that they risk losing their audience and consequently their argument.

I don't think you were the audience she was aiming at. The one she was seemed very satisfied. Except, of course, those who are trying to make the conference fall flat. That wouldn't be you, of course, would it?

It's not language I grew up with but I totally understood her and believe she was factually correct.

PippaZ

I don't think you were the audience she was aiming at. The one she was seemed very satisfied. Except, of course, those who are trying to make the conference fall flat. That wouldn't be you, of course, would it?

Except, of course, those who are trying to make the conference fall flat. That wouldn't be you, of course, would it?

Are you addressing me, PippaZ?
It is not clear.
No, not me, an erstwhile occasional Labour voter ? and disillusioned Lib Dem voter.

If she is addressing a very limited range of voters then Labour will have an uphill struggle winning voters over and ever becoming a Government, won't they?

I don’t understand what you mean either PippaZ. I’m a long term Labour supporter, why wouldn’t the deputy leader of the party want to appeal to me? I certainly don’t want the conference to fall flat, or indeed descend into in-fighting. What will happen behaviour like this continues is that there will be a mass loss of moderate party members, we are not in the 1970s.

Labour voters may not all find the language of the gutter appealing.

#Drakefordvoter

They may or may not. I may or may not vote Labour. It seems all that pearl-clutching attributed to liberal thinkers was going on across the voting population. What Angela Raynor said will not influence me in any way. I doubt it will influence voters when the time comes.

But then I hate nasty destructive gossip and that is how I see this attack on a woman, noticeably, saying what she feels in a fringe meeting. Some are out to bring her down. This will be a nine-day wonder that will be brought up, from time to time, by those not intending to vote Labour whatever they say or do.

I suggest those that do mind keep saying it on this thread because many others will just not be interested in someone telling the truth as she sees it in a way (clutch those pearls girlies) they would not.