Uncouth Angela Rayner doing Labour no favours

PippaZ I think you’ll find that lemongrove and I come from different perspectives politically - what we are agreed on though is that Angela Rayner went too far.
I admire passion and commitment - but I do think politicians should be able to make their point effectively without using invective. As I said before, Mark Drakeford said the same thing but much more effectively than she did yesterday - and he is actually doing the job. (or is he a clone too?).

I wish she had found a more eloquent and cutting description for the government, instead of sounding as if she were auditioning for a part in 'Eastenders'. She won't have much hope of strutting the world stage at some point in the future unless she can - as one commentator put it today - represent her class by showing some.

All I am saying is that everyone is not the same, does not speak in the same way and does not believe in the same things. Wanting your own freedoms is one thing. Trying to deprive others of their quite another.

Shall we buy our pastel dresses and high heels now Casdon or wait for the Sales??

lemongrove

Casdon

It’s not just the use of the word scum though grannyactivist it’s the stream of invective that went with it. There is a line between appropriate use of insults to make a point, and looking inarticulate because you go too far.

Exactly.
What part of that are posters either not comprehending or are refusing to countenance?

I understand what you are saying and am not surprised to find you saying it. No problems with my comprehension. The "stream of invective" summed up well what I feel so why should I disagree. I might not have said it in that way but for once it sounded like a politician speaking the truth.

However, you appear to need everyone to think like you both, sound like you both and be clones of you both. You appear to be rules-driven; don't do this, do do that or you cannot be allowed to have freedom of thought or speech. Stepford would no doubt welcome you.

The exact words that AR reportedly used were:

“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”

With the exception of the word scum I’m pretty certain that most of these words have been used on GN to describe how individuals view the current government, with particular reference to to the Prime Minister.

It’s not language I would use myself and I do absolutely believe that our politicians should be setting a more measured tone in their political discourse, but I am dismayed that so much manufactured hype has been made of a single rant when, as a country, there are real issues to get worked up about.

As an aside, it also begs the question about why remarks made by other MPs have not been subject to similar scrutiny. E.g. A recent ‘joke’ that was made about sending a bomb to the office of an MP of the opposing party, which has barely been made mention of.

Casdon

It’s not just the use of the word scum though grannyactivist it’s the stream of invective that went with it. There is a line between appropriate use of insults to make a point, and looking inarticulate because you go too far.

Exactly.
What part of that are posters either not comprehending or are refusing to countenance?

grannyactivist....there’s a reason in itself to avoid going to
A Christian convention, having to listen to twerps like that.
No, they wouldn’t be concerned with him saying the word ‘shit’ but they certainly would be offended that he said that
‘They didn’t give a shit’ about the children.

It’s not just the use of the word scum though grannyactivist it’s the stream of invective that went with it. There is a line between appropriate use of insults to make a point, and looking inarticulate because you go too far.

The furore over Angela Rayner’s use of the word ‘scum’ reminds me of the time an internationally renowned speaker (Tony Campolo) addressed a huge Christian convention thus:

“I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a shit. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”

^ As opposed to the 'look down on the peasants and let them die of covid' party^ hyperbolic nonsense GagaJo - did you attend the same Miss Piggy Charm School as Ms. Rayner?

Despite facing the worst Conservative government for decades under May this lot still couldn't win. And now you can see why.

Angela Raynor "I left School at 16, Pregnant and with No Qualifications". She Said "I`m No Scumbag" But She uses the Language that`s expected from a Scumbag

Even the masters of spin can’t make anything positive out of the sh*t shower that’s happening

I think many will agree with AR but not some of the language used.
Yes Mark Drakeford damned them so much better.

Casdon

Mark Drakeford today was able to say what amounted to the same thing but in a much more controlled and professional way. I think this is what we should be aiming for.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/mark-drakeford-labour-conference-brighton-21689731

I cannot imagine him using the language of the gutter or making offensive jokes such as those made by some politicians of all parties.
We know how strongly he feels about Johnson and his Government but expresses himself professionally.

I used to think he was rather like a kindly, mild headmaster but he is proving he has a core of steel.

I totally agree with what she said- but not the words she used. She is in a powerful rôle, and she must have known that such words not acceptable, especially in an official speech and not a private conversation that was inadvertently picked up.

As teachers, we know that this would not be acceptable in the classroom, so why would it be acceptable at Conference with press present.

As said, I admire her and totally agree with her- but honestly she should have known better, and apologised in such a way that she meant it, but accepted the word used was inappropriate- she would have gained a lot of respect for doing that.

love0c

This is precisely why the Conservatives will get in again. Labour need to drop this woman and fast! They are fast becoming the 'nasty rabble party'.

As opposed to the 'look down on the peasants and let them die of covid' party.

She said what a lot of people think. I agree with her.

NoPippaZ I don’t. I think she was beyond the line in the way she expressed what she thought, and she should apologise. I respect people who can say what they think in a way that is crystal clear without being offensive or personally insulting, there’s just no need for that. And I have to say, Mark Drakeford is nobody’s puppet.

This is precisely why the Conservatives will get in again. Labour need to drop this woman and fast! They are fast becoming the 'nasty rabble party'.

My Mum, who is obviously older than me said today how proud she was of Angela for not apologising until Boris does for all the horrible things he has said and done. It made me laugh

So you now want Stepford Politicians Casdon. She did what she did. There is no going back from it and I get the impression it's exactly what she believes. How often can you say that.

Mark Drakeford today was able to say what amounted to the same thing but in a much more controlled and professional way. I think this is what we should be aiming for.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/mark-drakeford-labour-conference-brighton-21689731

But is that as bad as what the government gets up to lavenderzen? Why a long thread on it when she hasn't broken any laws but this government has? It may not be great but, as I said before, it's honest.

An exclusive investigation into the profile of elite Conservative donors by The Citizens, published in full with the Byline Times on 9th September, revealed that a quarter of those who have given at least £100,000 in a single donation have been recognised with an honour, title, or place in the House of Lords. Indeed, when it comes to the top donors – those donating more than £1.5 million to the party – our investigation showed that 55% had been honoured with titles or awards such as OBEs and MBEs.

But I'm sure they did it incredibly politely. Don't you think things have got just a bit out of perspective?

Your last comment was just risible PippaZ! ‘Poor saps’ indeed.

I have voted Labour in the past. Loved John Smith. May he RIP.

I lent my vote this time to Boris because he was the only leader who promised to Get Brexit Done.
✅

I was sick of the Remainers trying to thwart the referendum result. Fed up of our stymied Parliament with its ‘indicative votes’ that got us bluddy nowhere. (PR anyone instead of FPTP? This is the reality!).

But Ms. Rayner and her ‘gumption’. It’s laughable really if it doesn’t translate to votes at the next ballot box. The Conservatives must be rubbing their hands with glee. She’s the new Diane Abbott. Marmite.

I just really wish she hadn't used the language she did and its nothing to do with class, its to do with showing a degree of respect. I like her, I am just disappointed with the language she used.

If some of the posters on here had a tenth of her gumption we might have a democratic government.

She sounded honest to me. Most of you tearing into her wouldn't vote Labour anyway. You don't mind the dishonest politician as long as they enunciate in an upperclass way. Then you find that those that are (JRM comes to mind) are treating you like trash but you just don't see it, poor saps