Keep this one simple - if HGV driver from Europe, would you come to help out on a 3 months contract?

www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/aetr-rules

The Commonwealth? though there are charities that exist to try to keep skilled people in their original country as it causes a skill shortage there. We (personally too) rely on carers/support workers from the commonwealth who are qualified nurses in some instances topping up their qualifications so they can work in the NHS. At the moment if these people were not here we would be up the creek, the situation employing carers and support workers is almost impossible since Covid.

Where are all the British people to fill these jobs? We've been spun a rhetoric that we can do it all ourselves. I'm wavering whether to post this as I know it upsets people but where are all these people who wanted these jobs? they appear to be invisible

There are not enough European drivers either. RHA say we need 100,000 drivers. Only 20,000 came from Europe, so even if all said yes it wouldn’t be enough. We need to get more trained HGV drivers. When it costs £4-7 thousand to get trained how many young people can afford that?

NO, because the answer is to address the pay and conditions in this country not panic and take a backwards step.
The road haulage association is on the side of the employers, not the side of the drivers.

Alegrias1

www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/aetr-rules

So still fairly European. Eastern Europe and the Balkans?

Goods vehicles
Duty time
If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.

Daily driving limit
You must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day:

on a public road
off-road if not during duty time
Off-road driving counts as duty time if it’s for:

agriculture
quarrying
forestry
building work
civil engineering

You must not drive for more than 10 hours a day, great What about all the time spent waiting to be unloaded, being unloaded, returning to base and waiting for your next load. Rarely does any supermarket driver get away with a 10 hour shift, and sitting around twiddling your thumbs is just as tiring as driving.

FlexibleFriend

NO, because the answer is to address the pay and conditions in this country not panic and take a backwards step.
The road haulage association is on the side of the employers, not the side of the drivers.

Haven't the EU done something about that fairly recently?

I agree that our HGV, well, all commercial drivers, pay and conditions need to be addressed, but while, as a nation, we still demand everything on the cheap and are firmly convinced that paying people more is inflationary, it could be a long while coming. Look at the way NHS staff have been treated. Everyone appeared to acknowledge their true worth at crisis moments in the pandemic, but now?

Ten hours is a long time to be driving isn't it
Tuesdays I spend about 5/6 hours driving and I feel that is enough!

YES

I think you have put your finger on it MaizieD that whilst we as a nation still demand everything on the cheap, it could be a long time coming before we properly address yet alone solve these problems.

10 hours is a very long time to be driving but that's only part of the job, the other hours aren't limited.

Not sure if it was Grant Shapps or Boris who said the other day the time has come to address the real issue and pay people what they deserve. Driving a Hgv is a skill and should be recognised as such. If prices increase so be it, prices have remained static or reduced for such a long time. It's only since covid prices have started to rise it's got naff all to do with Brexit. We really should address the skills shortage in this country and train our own people to do the jobs rather than rely on other countries to train and supply our labour force.

MaizieD

Alegrias1

www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/aetr-rules

So still fairly European. Eastern Europe and the Balkans?

They are the countries "around" the EU; so includes Turkey, Russia, etc. We seem to be taking the tack that drivers who have good status and job security in France/Germany/Spain/whatever wouldn't come, but perhaps drivers in countries where their livelihoods are a bit more precarious might be interested.

Its not the long term solution, I agree, but we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

Errmm FlexibleFriend How come Brexit has naff all to do with driver shortages, when it's been made more difficult for drivers and a hostile environment has been created?

Price rises are related, but they're not being discussed.

PS. Prices did start to rise at the beginning of the year, when the UK finally left the EU, so I disagree with you on prices.

MerylStreep

If I couldn’t pay my rent or feed my children and no welfare net to help me, then Yes I would. Pride wouldn’t come into it.

Well, as some have said, there are shortages in the EU still- so much much easier to go and work there with good conditions, higher salaries, more stable currencies, respect, no red tape due to Schengen, etc. So I will stick to

NO

Well Brexit is certainly responsible for forester shortages and there might now be fewer Christmas trees for sale. In previous years foresters from Eastern Europe who would come over for the harvest and then would return home afterwards. That isn't possible now.
Anyone got a chain saw I could borrow?

No. Boris has lost the plot ( if he ever had it!)

If I had a family to feed...I would do whatever it took. Having principles doesn’t put food on the table.

GROWSTUFF

If prices increase so be it, prices have remained static or reduced for such a long time. It's only since covid prices have started to rise it's got naff all to do with Brexit.

FlexibleFriend

GROWSTUFF

If prices increase so be it, prices have remained static or reduced for such a long time. It's only since covid prices have started to rise it's got naff all to do with Brexit.

??

If the rates are high enough then Yes. That's why 'I' came last time.

No for many reasons.
Driving too many hours a day
Not worth the money
Have to sleep in my vehicle
If a man, keep a milk bottle handy for loo-if a woman, gawd knows.
A supply of wet wipes to freshen up.

This is the reality then: we cannot manage without immigrants. I don't remember seeing that on a red bus during the referendum. Now we don't care where they come from as long as they come, don't expect good working conditions and are happy to return back home when it suits us.

NO. I would not be interested in any offer from the UK.

The government knew in 2016 that there was likely to be a serious problem:

"*A Driver shortage?*
1.We believe that the driver shortage is a shortage of people willing to work in the sector rather than a shortage of people with the right qualifications and licences. It seems to us that the apparent shortage will get worse unless action is taken to improve retention and increase recruitment. (Paragraph 24)

2.We conclude that there is no single cause for the driver shortage but a combination of a number of factors make the job less attractive than it was. It is imperative that the industry takes steps to improve the terms and conditions so it can recruit and retain the drivers it needs. The industry will need to invest more in recruitment, training and driver welfare following years of under-investment. We acknowledge that this is challenging for many of the smaller operators, especially given the very tight margins operators face. To improve conditions it will be necessary to address the inadequate facilities provided currently for drivers. It will also be necessary to promote the sector better in schools and colleges. We are also concerned about the terms and conditions under which some agency drivers are required to work. (Paragraph 32)

3.The driver shortage has resulted in a dependence on agency and particularly foreign drivers that goes beyond what is needed to cope with seasonal variations and is now necessary to sustain normal operation. The dependence on agency staff means that operators in the sector are probably not investing enough in their staff. We think this creates two risks that need to be managed. First, if the UK becomes relatively less attractive as a place for foreign drivers to work, the shortage could become much more acute, possibly quite rapidly. Second, the longer-term sustainability of the UK’s road haulage sector could be undermined if there is not a steady stream of people through the sector gaining the skills and experience that they need to become transport managers and operators. (Paragraph 41)"

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmtrans/68/6809.htm

The recommendation is that hauliers should invest more in training, recruitment and retention. That's all very well and good, but it was somewhat naive to think that hauliers would do anything without some kind of incentive. What incentives were offered? No business person is ever going to spend more when they can get away without spending more, so what has actually been done in the five years since the report was written? What has been done to make HGV driving a more attractive career option? Did this report just get filed away until now?

PS. Points 1 and 3 seem to contradict each other.

No. The UK government has repeatedly shown themselves to be idiots, and the populace are tolerating it. Why should Europe and their HGV drivers help us when we don't help ourselves?

FlexibleFriend

GROWSTUFF

If prices increase so be it, prices have remained static or reduced for such a long time. It's only since covid prices have started to rise it's got naff all to do with Brexit.

Prices of what?

Sorry, but I'm extremely careful with money (I have to be) and I have noticed that prices of groceries (especially dairy) have crept up since the beginning of the year, when the UK left the EU properly. Prices of postage to and from the EU have increased, as have the books I can only buy in the EU. Energy prices have, of course, increased but I agree that's worldwide.

So how are you going to support the people who were already living on a financial knife edge?

The median income in the UK is around £25,000pa.,which means that half of all people have an income below £25,000. According to you, HGV drivers can earn up to £50,000. Is it really OK if the people earning below £25,000 are paying for increases for people earning more than double what they earn?

Prices do matter.