Labour party conference, is no-one else interested?

Oh I think Thatcher was very charismatic, I might not have liked her policies but she could hold attention on the world stage.

Never thought of Merkel as dull then again you couldn’t accuse Maggie Thatcher of winning on the Charisma factor More solid straight talking who didn’t suffer fools gladly with a scientific background

The problem with someone thought to have charisma leading a party is they are usually quite "marmite". For everyone that finds them charismatic, another person will see a charlatan.

Although not all charismatic people are charlatans, charlatans need charisma to persuade people to buy into what they are offering so we learn that charisma is suspect.

I dont think Starmer is like Blair, I dont think he is doing Blairs job, I think he is doing kinnocks job.

rosie1959

I watched quite a bit of Keir Starmers speech even though I an not a supporter of the Labour Party
I was thinking back to the last time Labour won an election which was I believe back in 1997 now what did Tony Blair have that Keir seems to be lacking in ?
Probably makes little difference to critical thinkers but out in the real world?

I think Blair had charm, eloquence, energy and enthusiasm. And great team behind him who were Machiavellian in their aims and practice -Mandelson and Campbell.
Starmer seems to lack all of these.

Kali2

'Intelligent' is a big word - but civic instruction is very much part of the system, family and friends political discussions not 'taboo' as so often in the UK - but PR system means that people don't grow up being 'one or t'other' or 2 main huge parties. Families and friends are spread around several parties with similar outlooks but some differentiation which needs to be discussed and debated- and most of the time- the local, regional and national political decisions are made in collaboration with other parties.

That is what was going on to suggest.

I think PR of any form engages the voter whereas TFPTP system closes the voter down.

rosie1959

Whitewavemark2

rosie the ability to be trustworthy and truthful and law abiding I think.

I can’t imagine Starmer starting an illegal war can you?

True but unfortunately he is as dull as ditch water and tha will not enthuse the electorate

Rather sad to think that the electorate is so shallow as to chose entertainment over good governance. I would hope that our current experience has given many of them food for thought.

Can anyone put a finger on anything our current government has done to improve, or even safeguard, the wellbeing of any section of the population, apart from that of their friends, relatives and party donors?

'Intelligent' is a big word - but civic instruction is very much part of the system, family and friends political discussions not 'taboo' as so often in the UK - but PR system means that people don't grow up being 'one or t'other' or 2 main huge parties. Families and friends are spread around several parties with similar outlooks but some differentiation which needs to be discussed and debated- and most of the time- the local, regional and national political decisions are made in collaboration with other parties.

Whitewavemark2

Yes that is certainly an issue in this country. Obviously not an issue is Germany.

Do you think the electorate are more politically intelligent in Germany?

Two articles to be read together;

German coalition talks: Where Brits see a crisis, Germans find unity

German election chaos: Germany in for 'difficult moment' as Merkel's party flounders

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58718307

www.express.co.uk/news/world/1493562/german-election-news-germany-angela-merkel-cdu-armin-laschet-olaf-scholz-spt

I like chatasmatic. A new word for the day. Better than the gift of the gab.

Whitewavemark2

Yes that is certainly an issue in this country. Obviously not an issue is Germany.

Do you think the electorate are more politically intelligent in Germany?

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.

Or charismatic people even. People who dont check their posts are dangerous as well.

I think chatasmatic people are often quite dangerous in power.

Sorry. I watched Starmer on breakfast tv this morning. No Charisma; whatever he says goes over you.

Yes that is certainly an issue in this country. Obviously not an issue is Germany.

Do you think the electorate are more politically intelligent in Germany?

Whitewavemark2

rosie the ability to be trustworthy and truthful and law abiding I think.

I can’t imagine Starmer starting an illegal war can you?

True but unfortunately he is as dull as ditch water and tha will not enthuse the electorate

No ??not EU transience.

This comes from a complete lack of understanding as to how the huge economic club works.

It is totally rule based (I guess Johnson can never get his head around that given his past behaviour)

Blair , the only Labour leader to win three successive elections,
.rosie asked what Blair had to win

PippaZ

foxie48

Whitewavemark2

Shelbel

They will never win an election with their woke agenda.

Making Brexit work does not mean accepting the status quo though does it?

It isn’t going to work unless the current agreement is assessed and re-aligned.

I think you meant it for my comment.
Yes, I think it means accepting that we have left the EU on the the terms agreed by BJ. Sadly I think its pie in the sky to imagine that the EU will renegotiate but you never know. However, regardless of that we need to just get on and make the best of what we have and that takes strategy, which I don't feel we have at the moment. Everything seems to be done "on the hoof" and that's not good enough is it?

We are no longer a part of the EU. I don't think anyone is gainsaying that.

However, I think our trade agreement with the EU must be properly negotiated so that it works. We don't have one that works in any real way, do we?. It's a mess. I do not mean going back to where we were but just making it function, We need to be able to carry out trade with our nearest neighbours without switching off all the boarder actions that keep us safe.

Johnson had three words not a plan and legally "leaving" somewhere does not mean you shouldn't do everything you can to make life work for this country.

Don’t forget, it was May and co that negotiated the EU deal, EU wouldn’t renegotiate as the terms were better for the them so hey ho we are in this place now. Many of these problems are from EU intransigence, Macron comes to mind, nothing must be seen to weaken their stance. Can’t see it getting any better.

rosie the ability to be trustworthy and truthful and law abiding I think.

I can’t imagine Starmer starting an illegal war can you?

I watched quite a bit of Keir Starmers speech even though I an not a supporter of the Labour Party
I was thinking back to the last time Labour won an election which was I believe back in 1997 now what did Tony Blair have that Keir seems to be lacking in ?
Probably makes little difference to critical thinkers but out in the real world?

They are the best kind I think Whitwavemark. The only issue is they aren’t press fodder, so it takes longer for them to establish themselves. We all need somebody we can trust to tell us the truth, however unpalatable, but many people don’t want it, or can’t face up to it.

Johnson is a celebrity, people love celebrities

I have until recently wondered if a less sensible and non-showy personality would be better as leader, then I thought of Merkel and realised how good these so called dull leaders can be.

Looking further at Starmer speech.

He is clever and focused. In a normal world Johnson wouldn’t stand a chance against Starmers intelligence and integrity.

But there is nothing normal about our country.