Labour party conference, is no-one else interested?

I dont think Starmer is like Blair, I dont think he is doing Blairs job, I think he is doing kinnocks job.

The problem with someone thought to have charisma leading a party is they are usually quite "marmite". For everyone that finds them charismatic, another person will see a charlatan.

Although not all charismatic people are charlatans, charlatans need charisma to persuade people to buy into what they are offering so we learn that charisma is suspect.

Never thought of Merkel as dull then again you couldn’t accuse Maggie Thatcher of winning on the Charisma factor More solid straight talking who didn’t suffer fools gladly with a scientific background

Oh I think Thatcher was very charismatic, I might not have liked her policies but she could hold attention on the world stage.

Merkel held attention because of her intelligent politics not because of her charisma.

The world gradually came to appreciate her ability over her years in government.

That’s interesting Galaxy. I liked Kinnock, but I’d say he was definitely one of the most Marmite politicians in living memory, although a catalyst for change. I see Starmer as more like Gordon Brown in the early days if anybody, but he is his own man.

I'd not have called Thatcher charismatic. She had that bossy schoolmistress 'thing' about her which made people sit up straight and listen to what she had to say. And what she had to say so authoritatively was very simplistic and easy to understand, even if it was astoundingly wrong.

MaizieD

rosie1959

Whitewavemark2

rosie the ability to be trustworthy and truthful and law abiding I think.

I can’t imagine Starmer starting an illegal war can you?

True but unfortunately he is as dull as ditch water and tha will not enthuse the electorate

Rather sad to think that the electorate is so shallow as to chose entertainment over good governance. I would hope that our current experience has given many of them food for thought.

Can anyone put a finger on anything our current government has done to improve, or even safeguard, the wellbeing of any section of the population, apart from that of their friends, relatives and party donors?

I think even those who think this PM walks on water will run out of excuses eventually.

It's not just that he is incompetent - which is certainly the case - but he also seems to be unlucky and brings that bad luck on us all. It's the hubris thing again. The Greeks thought the Gods would punish someone who was so arrogant and that they would envoke nemesis (retribution or vengeance) on such a person.

Obviously, we don't see it that way now. However, the idea that someone will "get their comeuppance" is still with us. It may be something generations have picked up in the cycle of life.

I would just rather he didn't take the country with him when his "comeuppance" comes along.

Unfortunately, I suspect that there aren't too many people who know about the Greek concepts of nemesis and hubris (although Johnson must have at least touched on them during his studies).

I suspect his nemesis might come in the form of a lighter pay packet, higher prices and the lack of new hospitals, schools and business opportunities.

PippaZ

The problem with someone thought to have charisma leading a party is they are usually quite "marmite". For everyone that finds them charismatic, another person will see a charlatan.

Although not all charismatic people are charlatans, charlatans need charisma to persuade people to buy into what they are offering so we learn that charisma is suspect.

Exactly, after 2 of them in quick succession - you'd have thought we, the voters- would see what the result is.

growstuff

Unfortunately, I suspect that there aren't too many people who know about the Greek concepts of nemesis and hubris (although Johnson must have at least touched on them during his studies).

I suspect his nemesis might come in the form of a lighter pay packet, higher prices and the lack of new hospitals, schools and business opportunities.

Now that they can't blame the EU for all that I expect it will be blamed on the last Labour government ?

But they are still trying to blame the EU, aren't they? Just look at some of the comments on GN.

Starmer stood on a ticket and hasn’t delivered - he’s a wannabe Tony Blair, Tory lite but what does he stand for? He said he would unite the party. When he kicked Jeremy Corbyn out I left the labour party. I didn’t agree totally with Jeremy Corbyn, but he was the most decent MPs amongst the lot of them

I still believe that the only person who might win for Labour is Andy Burnham.

Of course that's not possible at the moment but in a few years he might get the part.

My colleagues are all left wing. Mainly 20s/30s. None of them like Keir. He just doesn't fit the bill for them.

I think the left of the party has to decide to either back KS and accept that the Corbyn/momentum agenda does not win enough votes to win an election, start another party that divides the votes or sit back and let the Conservatives continue in office. I know what I hope they decide to do.

I think the left of the party were willing to back Starmer and concede some things, but he has conducted himself with such a lack of regard for both left wing policies and people that they are unwilling to see him as leader any longer. Can someone who promises to unite a party and then suspends or otherwise engineers that left wing members leave be considered as an honourable and suitable person to lead a country? Or do we perhaps just deserve liars and charlatans in charge?

foxie48

I think the left of the party has to decide to either back KS and accept that the Corbyn/momentum agenda does not win enough votes to win an election, start another party that divides the votes or sit back and let the Conservatives continue in office. I know what I hope they decide to do.

You start to wonder if they left of the Labour Party would be better leaving and the current Labour Party leadership better off without them.

I don't really know much about the membership but why don't the far left just leave?

Zoejory
“I still believe that the only person who might win for labour is Andy Burnham.”From what I’ve seen of him on TV, I think you could be right.
Keir isn’t forceful enough and I’m not impressed by some of his ministers. Alison McGovern on Woman’s Hour yesterday for example was even worse than most politicians in being unable to answer a single question without havering, no matter how the interviewer asked it.

So you’d rather continue with the current government?

trisher I don't know enough about internal Labour party politics to comment on that except to say perhaps his "lack of regard for left wing policies and people" is not a "lack of regard" but a pragmatic decision to move the party more to the right which clearly is not what some of the members want. That is always going to be difficult, isn't it? I think it's very harsh to describe him as a liar and a charlatan, he seems a very decent and principled man to me, worryingly a bit too nice for politics but hopefully he has a thick skin, he needs it!

Burnham stood for the leadership in 2015, he lost to Corbyn

I too think that the left of the Party were willing to give Keir Starmer a chance. Some of us even voted for him. He has proved to be very disappointing, and, in my view, dishonest.
When people say "why don't you just leave" well I have.
When it comes to voting at the next election I am really not sure what I will do, but being called names like "loony left" or "hard left" will certainly not convince me.

Anniebach

Burnham stood for the leadership in 2015, he lost to Corbyn

True, Anniebach, much to the horror of many in the Labour Party.

However, many people voted for Corbyn who wanted Labour to fail dramatically. I know a couple of idiots that joined the party purely and simply to vote for him. I don't think that scenario would happen again.

Can those of you that dislike Starmer explain to me the scenario that you want to play out? Eg do you want Corbyn reinstated as leader? Do you want someone else as leader? If so how are you going to achieve that? And how will you do it in time to not lose yet another election? Who is that perfect leader? Long Bailey? McDonnell?And can you honestly say that you would rather the country continue to be run by the most incompetent government in my lifetime than a Labour government that isn’t exactly what you want it to be. Because all the people suffering at the hands of the Tories will suffer far less under a Labour government led by Keir Starmer. Isn’t that better than what we have now?

Anniebach

Burnham stood for the leadership in 2015, he lost to Corbyn

People can make bad choices though; or choices for the wrong reason. We are very flawed when it comes to political thinking.