Look at Me

Galaxy

Was it the men Jane? I wondered if it was the women trying to voice their unease. Probably both to be honest. I find listening to the details too awful.

I don't know, I presumed. I have worked in jobs with men who cross the line and are never pulled up on their behaviour or attitude, it's all just 'banter'

What we must never ever do is blame the victim.

Women should be able to wear what they like, walk alone, makeup as they like etc.

They are NEVER to blame.

jaylucy

Playing a bit of devil's advocate here- what about Couzen's wife, children and extended family?
How is their life going to be connected to this monster?

She may move to her home country with the children and start a new life away from all this? I think that is what I would do

Lucca ; I gave my opinion and what I said about putting him in an underground dungeon and leaving him to rot would be the best outcome for him. In fact sometimes for people like that it is a time to bring the old fashioned hanging method back.
Yes there is a justice system which the U.K follows only I think of that young woman denied any chances by him and driven away to a death to horrific to even think about.
He must be some kind of warped delusional sadistic predator for what he done, bloody had a decent job a wife and kids with a life he could have lived only it wasn't enough
which is why women know they have to have their wits about them and generally be on guard.

3nanny6

Lucca ; I gave my opinion and what I said about putting him in an underground dungeon and leaving him to rot would be the best outcome for him. In fact sometimes for people like that it is a time to bring the old fashioned hanging method back.
Yes there is a justice system which the U.K follows only I think of that young woman denied any chances by him and driven away to a death to horrific to even think about.
He must be some kind of warped delusional sadistic predator for what he done, bloody had a decent job a wife and kids with a life he could have lived only it wasn't enough
which is why women know they have to have their wits about them and generally be on guard.

But you have “try” the offender in court

Whitewavemark2 I agree that the victims should not be blamed.

I was trying to illiterate maybe how the predators apportion blame onto the victim instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

No matter how horrific a crime is I would not like the death penalty back in the U.K. and will/would not vote for any particular party advocating for it.

I agree with both points gg13

Yes Lucca I know and at least he will get to die in prison,
although I think it may be sooner than later because he will
not be liked. He will probably have to spend his time in solitary confinement cell or else be prepared to get harassed
and hurt on a daily basis. Life will be so different in there.

GrannyGravy13

No matter how horrific a crime is I would not like the death penalty back in the U.K. and will/would not vote for any particular party advocating for it.

Agree GG13.

There's not a lot that would get me out on the streets with a banner but any party trying to bring back capital punishment would do it.

In a perfect world ( the Garden Of Eden?) all men would be respectful of women, have no mental health problems, and no anger issues, and women could go about wearing bikinis if they so chose... however, we all know the reality of this world.
The best we can hope for is that the police do their level best to investigate properly when a crime against a woman happens, and to make sure that police officers are thoroughly
vetted before being accepted for training and any offences committed by them are taken seriously.
As for women, it makes sense to be careful in their everyday lives, particularly so after dark and to think about what they are wearing.That’s all they can do, and even then they can run into a monster if unlucky.
Men in general can help by not finding ‘iffy’ behaviour amusing, or pretending to.
After that, I can’t see what any man or woman can do.

Humanprogress.org is 'a project of the Cato Institute. Who are they:

The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded as the Charles Koch Foundation in 1974 by Ed Crane, Murray Rothbard, and Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of Koch Industries.

I do not think an American libertarian think tank can be trusted as a source of neutral information.

For those who favour the Daily Telegraph, it reports:

Single men watched pornography for an average of 40 minutes, three times a week, while those in relationships watched it 1.7 times a week for around 20 minutes.

Then the paywall kicks in. www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html

And the Independent:

What age a man encountered porn decides in what precise way they'll mistreat women, a new study has found.

People who see sexualised image at a younger age are more likely to try and exert power over women. While people who see pornographic material later in their life are more likely to become promiscuous "playboys", as the scientists labelled them.

The study looked at 330 male university students and asked them about their exposure to porn. It also asked about their attitudes to women, and compared the two.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/porn-age-first-viewed-young-old-women-relate-playboy-promiscuous-power-exert-a7875481.html

The confidence of some that their men would never watch porn or the behaviour that quite possibly is led by it is admirable. Nevertheless, we live in different times and porn has, I think, had a definite effect on male attitudes and behaviour towards women. There certainly are attacks on young men and male rape is rarely reported on but it does happen. Even so, the vast majority of violence is against women.

I have on occasions discussed men's behaviour on the street with my husband's grown up 20 something granddaughters who all live in London. From what they tell me, and I imagine their experiences are not unique, there seems to be far more harassment both verbal and otherwise from random men, who they don't know, or encourage in any way, than there was when I was young. Whistling and cat calling was a daily annoyance, and a great pisser offer, and I did have occasions when men slowed down in cars and shouted stuff out, but I'm not sure I was actually approached on the street in perhaps the threatening way women seem to experience now. Like many women, I did have some horrible experiences on the tube, packed in like sardines, when hands and other body parts were where they shouldn't have been.

It was heart breaking to read Sarah's mother's statement . Am I right in thinking that that a police officer can arrest a woman, even in an off duty capacity, for not doing anything wrong? as in the case of Sarah, some trumped up load of nonsense I believe. This was one of the most alarming aspects about this terrible crime how awful that piece of film of her being handcuffed and in the back of his car. Truly shocking and now the awful recent murder of Sabina, again premediated by the murderer who I gather was on the look out for a suitable victim. These two women both in the wrong place and the wrong time. Not so long ago, there was also the case of the Hull university student who arrived home from an evening out and before she reached her own front door, abducted and murdered by a neighbour across the road.

The pernicious influence and use of pornography is far more widespread now than it was when we were young women, can't help thinking it's a factor in predatory behaviour with some men.

I do hope the men that have committed these awful crimes stay in prison for the rest of their lives.

Porn is just so much more accessible. There is evidence of a massive increase in women in their 20s having injuries related to sex because of sexual practices portrayed in porn

I don’t want to call that barbarous freak a man. He is evil, deranged, perverse, violent…..
His crime is unforgivable and I’m glad he’s been given a whole of life sentence.
Sadly it is a fact of life that most women are more vulnerable than most men due to our physical strength and size. This shouldn’t make a difference if all people have equal emotional intelligence.
Education and example both in the home and in society as a whole would help.
I would like to see a society where pornography is not acceptable at any level. Where the sexualisation of girls, boys, men and women is not acceptable in advertising or in any other way. Where good manners and respect for others takes precedence over knowing our rights.
Tragically we are way beyond that point and a way back seems impossible.
We should all be able to feel safe on our streets, feel safe in any company and most of all feel safe in the presence of someone who has sworn to keep us safe, a serving police officer.
He has not only taken a beautiful young life but he’s destroyed the trust in the police for at least a generation.

If you want to stop violent crime against women, you need to address, what makes some men violent and why and how to intervene in their lives to change their behaviour coupled with clear teaching and guidance with children, of both sexes, from the time they start school.

Campaigning against the results of male violence aagainst women, unless you start with chanaging the way people think, is like cutting the head of a dandelion and thinking it will kill the plant. Until you deal with the roots the dandelion will continue to grow flowers.

Yes but when women in particular try to talk about those roots, such as porn, and about issues of consent and even the issue of prostitution you get shouted down by the sex positive 'empowerment' mob.

Whitewavemark2

My son and husband are as far from a misogynist and violent person as you could wish, but they should shoulder their responsibility for what is happening to women and ensure that they call out this misogynistic behaviour wherever they see or hear it.

Men must stop men from such behaviour. It is no longer a laugh or acceptable. We know know that such apparent silly behaviour could lead to much much worse.

Nowadays I think people would fear that someone might have a knife and they would be injured or worse if they intervened.

We need more police on the streets and the police themselves need to look at the type of casual misogynist culture in police forces which JaneJudge mentions in her post.

He has not only taken a beautiful young life but he’s destroyed the trust in the police for at least a generation.

Yes, he has.
I hope he rots in misery.

Galaxy

Yes but when women in particular try to talk about those roots, such as porn, and about issues of consent and even the issue of prostitution you get shouted down by the sex positive 'empowerment' mob.

So true sadly

Whitewavemark2

We are not damning 50% of the population, but when are men going to take responsibility?

Is the sort of man who attacks women ever going to take responsibility?

And exactly what are nice, normal, decent men supposed to do about it? Other than set a good example to any sons they may have, and to any other young males they come into contact with, of course.

Galaxy

But on a thread about the horrific death of a woman the only thing that seems worthy of discussion is the feelings of men.

And so goes the way of the world. Let’s protect the poor men.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. That POS Couzens was ‘arresting’ a woman on his own. What an absolute shame the first witness didn’t think ‘hang on a minute, is this right?’. Imagine if she and her husband had got out of their car to question one officer doing this? ‘I’m going to call to check as this makes me feel very uncomfortable ‘.

I have just said in the other thread I dont think you can possibly hold members of the public responsible for this. Do police never arrest someone on their own?

When women talk about such issues as porn, and about issues of consent and even the issue of prostitution you get shouted down by the sex positive 'empowerment' mob.

What is the point of running a campaign to get change in society, when you defeat yourself before your start.

The whole point is that we need to refuse to be shouted down by any mob. Stand together and outface them. I fthey can do it, so can we.