Look at Me

grandtanteJE65, I think that the widely reported 'epidemic' of violence towards women is more to do with an increase in reporting and a heightened perception. We know about it, because of the media.

A number of recent cases have raised the profile of offending, including the deaths of Sarah Everard, of Julia James, (a police community support officer in Kent, allegedly killed while out walking her dog) and the murders of the sisters Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman.

You wonder 'what has gone wrong?' whereas I think we were blissfully unaware of it in our youth.

Still, I believe a lot could be done, through education, the criminal justice system, efficient policing etc. to reduce it. Are we willing to pay, though? - that's the question.

(oodles - wrong! - try reading the article, not just the headline)

Instead of discussing whether women are, or should be responsible for their own safety, I would prefer to discuss the whole issue of violence, both in the streets and in the home from another angle.

We seem increasingly to be living in a society where violence is tolerated. Why has this become the case?

Before I went to school, I had been taught not to hit, kick or bite other children, not to pull my little sister's hair etc. All through school we were encouraged to discuss our disagreements and any girls who lashed out physically at each other (there were no boys in the schools I went to) promtly found themselves in the headmistress' office waiting for their parents who had been phoned to come immediately and discuss their daughters' misbehaviour. It was made clear that neither our parents nor the school would accept behaviour of this kind. By and large one good talking-to resolved the situation, which was not repeated.

As teenagers we were told to run away fast if anyone attempted to molest us in any way in the streets. I have only ever needed to do so once. I came to no harm and it was unpleasant, andI feel heartily sorry for anyone who has had worse experiences than mine.

So what has gone wrong?
Is all the violence in films etc. the cause of the growing violence?

Is it due to no-one bringing children up to respect other people as people?

Or is it due to insufficient punishment when the offenders are caught?

This last question leads to two other major discussions:

1 Does punishment have a preventative effect on others who might be tempted to commit similar acts of violence?

2 How do we ensure that offenders are speedily brought to justice?

As a teenager I was not allowed to go into the centre of Glasgow on the day of a Rangers-Celtic football match, but at all other times I could have been allowed to do so and take a bus home alone at nine or even ten o'clock in the evening. I could also at any time walk to the end of the street we lived in after dark, or even further to visit friends or relations.

My parents were not considered fool-hardy either, nor do I remember ever being told to take the dog with me, though I sometimes did. He was a large Alsatian and more scared of teenage boys than I was, so I am not sure he would have defended me if any of them had tried anything on. My point is that in 1967-68 no-one did.

So what has gone wrong since then? If we can find that out we might just be able to begin to change things for the better.

Greciangirl : many of us know that Sarah Everards case was not an isolated incident. The case was highly publicised maybe because the murderer was a police officer and that is what shocked many people.
The teacher that was murdered in London is another one but because the case is ongoing not much can be said but she was on a five minute walk so terrible as well.
There was the two sisters that were celebrating a birthday in
a park and they stayed there when others had left. I recall one of them being called Habiba but cannot remember the other name. The awful thing about there murders was that officers were sharing instagram pictures of the bodies and there is a disciplinary hearing going on about that.
I can think of others there is quite a list.
I think it goes to show wherever a predator sees a chance to
attack and go on to murder is always prevalent and I do wonder what can be done to give more safety to women.

Baggs

^Only just over 1% of rapes were prosecuted last year^

Do you have the source for this shocking statistic, please?

news.sky.com/story/99-of-rapes-reported-to-police-in-england-and-wales-do-not-result-in-legal-proceedings-why-12104130

Lynnenana I couldn’t believe that advice either. “Oh, yes I’m being followed, I’ll dial 999”. By the time they get here I’m assaulted and possibly dead. I don’t think I can outrun a fit guy either. Unbelievably out of touch. The police need to get real and get a grip.

The Sarah Everard case has been highly publicised and reported.
We mustn’t forget there are lots of other rape and sexual assaults on women, practically every day.
Only this week, a young teacher was Assaulted and killed in London.
These cases are only briefly reported and usually there isn’t a vigil for them as there was with Sarah Everard.
Please remember, this isn’t an isolated incident.

I think the police advice to women following this appalling murder is “call 999”, “run”, or I expect now it will be to ‘make sure you are dressed appropriately’. It’s just all circles.
Nothing gets done. Please don’t tell me toddlers are misogynists. So start equality from that point so girls and boys don’t feel different.

and half of uk women killed by men die at the hands of a stranger Hetty

Without a doubt.

It's not helpful to focus on 'stranger danger' when statistics show that most women who are murdered know their killer - and it's most common at home:

www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/femicide-census-reveals-half-of-uk-women-killed-by-men-die-at-hands-of-partner-or-ex/

No amount of anger management sessions would have stopped this man. He has no problems controlling any anger he might feel, at home, everyone thought he was a nice guy. he was able to control himself. From what I read he didn't commit the crime in a fit of anger, he had planned it all, no red mist came down. All anger management seems to do with many people is help them control their anger even better. Most domestic abusers have no problem with controlling their anger, they make sure that it is only directed to the person they are abusing, to others they seem really reasonable, if they are really unable to control their anger they would be abusive towards others, at work, friends or other members of their family, but they aren't. IT's deliberate, they make their partner look crazy and for people not to believe that they are violent because 'he is a really nice guy'
Heaven knows what was going on inside his head

As for the animal kingdom, looking at my dogs, my dogs are sometimes aggressive to each other, but not towards the bitches, or pups. I guess in nature the dogs would not be living with each other so it would be less likely to lead to arguments on a day-to-day basis.

Yes Hetty58 serious crime is rare but this is no consolation.
Fear of fear itself is crippling and debilitating for women, children, and anyone less able bodied through disability or older age.
From experiencing groping at aged 16 in my first job, (this old blokes’ behaviour was common knowledge apparently) amongst much older women in the same office and presumably all the men….
to being told by an approaching man and big dog about 11:30 ish one night it’s a bit late for you luv isn’t it …when I am on the small bit of green right outside the windows of our flat with our Labrador ..strooth ! it’s depressing, energy sapping, infuriating, and IT’S 2021
My reply: “well if it’s late for me, it’s late for you”

Hetty58

'fighting off a killer' is not something we are likely to do, though, is it? There will always be a very small element of danger in our lives. The real tragedy is being limited by it, avoiding real life or normal situations - due to a fear of falling victim to a predator.

Its just what Sarah Everard would have needed to do though.

'fighting off a killer' is not something we are likely to do, though, is it? There will always be a very small element of danger in our lives. The real tragedy is being limited by it, avoiding real life or normal situations - due to a fear of falling victim to a predator.

That’s awful Lilypops. I can understand how that has never left you.

Hetty58

With equal respect Alegrias1, you really don't have to be equally powerful, physically, to defeat a man - if you fight dirty. Go for the eyes and b*lls every time!

In my youth I was a karateka. I know what you need to do. I also know that learning about how to do a well placed kick in the church hall doesn't mean that you are able to use it in real life situations.

I'm 5'5". Any 6' man could overpower me in a second, and always could have.

We're not talking about discouraging over-enthusiastic suitors, we're taking about fighting off a killer.

More magical thinking.

With equal respect Alegrias1, you really don't have to be equally powerful, physically, to defeat a man - if you fight dirty. Go for the eyes and b*lls every time!

You ask ‘Whitewave2’….” When Will men take responsibility ?…….. I believe it starts with stupid mothers of boys saying. “ well, boys will be boys”. I wish that phrase was made criminal, hearing that from toddler to teenage is like giving them permission to behave how they want, when they want! Stop it! you mothers and grannies and aunties !! Stop it now.

At the age of 17 , I was walking home from work. It was about 6.30 pm in April so still light, I was aware of a man walking on the opposite side of the road , he then crossed to my side and started walking quicker behind me, at that point I was scared and started to run, he started to run after me, I wasn’t far from home, when I reached my house I turned around , he stopped by the front gate for a couple of seconds then he ran away ,
That incident 60 years ago left me with a fear of going out alone ever since , I cannot bear a man walking behind me , as that night always comes back , I don’t even like going in my back garden in the dark in case someone is there,
Why should I have had to live with this fear all this time,?
My Parents took me to the police station to report it it but nothing ever came of it except this unsafe feeling i am
left with,

Do people understand the physical difference between men and women? My son could have overpowered me by the time he was 14 if not earlier.

With respect Hetty58, are you a large, powerful, strong person capable of taking on a physically dominant man intent on causing you harm? Because unless you are, boxing lessons aren't going to help, any more than a pithy put down will.

Gravygrannie13 I totally agree with you I have 3 grandsons who are lovely and very respectful to every body unfortunately I think that violence is in the genes and people will kill if they have that urge and there's nothing you can do about it no matter how many police are patrolling the streets it's been happening for centuries

I've always felt perfectly safe, even out and about from an early age. I've had the usual unwanted attention, travelling on the tube or at dances - but felt confident to put them in their place, verbally and/or physically.

Maybe that's because my father taught me boxing. I think all girls should learn some form of self defence and have some well rehearsed put downs on hand.

I don't agree with 'Women should not be responsible for their safety' as we all have some responsibility. It's a partnership with the authorities. Serious crimes are very rare and nobody should feel unsafe. I love going out and about so I feel very sorry for those limited by anxiety.