Police that can’t be trusted

25Avalon Would you tell your gc if you are lost ask a policeman? Sadly probably not. well yes I do. I trust a policeman more than some random stranger. Do you not trust doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, priests, I could go on?

Rosie the problem is that this seems to be endemic in the police force. There are plenty of good decent officers but until they get a proper vetting and safeguarding protocol in place there may be doubt. Policemen are usually in uniform and recognisable whilst Doctors, teachers etc outside are not. As a teacher if you post inappropriate photos or make offensive remarks on social media you can lose your job. Why didn’t this happen with Couzens?

I dont have grandchildren but I always told my children to go into a shop and speak to a female worker.

25Avalon I meant trust those other professionals in their roles, not on the streets. Of course the vetting procedure needs to be tightened, starting with not accepting the vetting previously done by another authority. I really don't understand how he was part of a specialist, armed unit without exhaustive checks. A family member is part of a highly specialist, unarmed unit, he and his entire extended family were subject to 6 months of background checks.

Whitewavemark2

Quote from Raab’s speech.

“Misogyny is absolutely wrong, whether it’s a man against a woman, or a woman against a man”

Not the brightest spark in the box.

As Jess Philips said

Jess Phillips MP
@jessphillips
·
6m
Give me strength. Not sure why I'd be surprised he's got form of knowing the square root of naff all.

David Lammy has tweeted on Raab's error Justice Secretary
@DominicRaab doesn't know the definition of misogyny.
No wonder the @Conservatives are hopeless at tackling violence against women and girls.

This is the man who says transwomen probably don't have ovaries but with various procedures and hormone treatment can have a cervix
You have to wonder at the lack of intelligence in a lot of them!

Neen

I actually feel also sorry for all the officers who served with him. How must they feel. Some would have had leisure / personal / holidays with him etc it's a very sad situation all around .

His colleagues called him the 'rapist' as a matter of course, that was the nickname he was given so don't waste time feeling sorry for them they should be bought to book.

Sorry but no other group would be treated with such outright contempt as has been shown by Raab and Lammy.

25Avalon a DBS check looks at the police central records and will show offences and unspent cautions, Couzens didn't have anything on his record. His record could have been checked without a DBS because he was a police officer. Vetting will only show up what is there. police officers will not only have been trained in safeguarding procedures, they (unlike most people) frequently deal with safeguarding issues. Couzens, as far as anyone knows, made inappropriate comments in a WhatsAp group, WhatsAp is an encrypted media and it was a closed group, only members of that group would have known about it until the police had access to Couzen's phone. Actually I should think that those people who had contact with Couzens prior to him joining the MET and were concerned by his behaviour but did nothing are probably feeling rather guilty, I know I would! IMO we all have a responsibility in keeping each other safe.

I appreciate what you are saying foxie48. That is the problem with DBS, that and possibly making people complacent. That’s why you need a vigorous safeguarding system running alongside. Somewhere that concerns, even the smallest ones can be taken without the person relating being afraid to do so. Afraid of not getting promotion, of being sidelined by colleagues etc. Certainly somewhere where hearing of an officer nicknamed the rapist would raise concern and action.

25Avalon

I appreciate what you are saying foxie48. That is the problem with DBS, that and possibly making people complacent. That’s why you need a vigorous safeguarding system running alongside. Somewhere that concerns, even the smallest ones can be taken without the person relating being afraid to do so. Afraid of not getting promotion, of being sidelined by colleagues etc. Certainly somewhere where hearing of an officer nicknamed the rapist would raise concern and action.

TBH I don't think the general public know yet what his colleagues in the police knew, that's what should be investigated as part of the review. His crime was hideous and I feel for Sarah's family but there seems to be a lot of speculation which I'm sure can't be helpful. fwiw I don't believe Couzens behaviour or attitude is "endemic" in the police but the police is a microcosm of society and there are some vile people in this world and there will be some in the police too but they will be a minority.

There is always minimising when women talk about this type of thing.

someone else in his unit has been charged with as well haven't they in the last few days? another bloke old enough to know better using tinder and manipulating women they meet through it. My friend said it's awful. She said she has been on so many dates (not necessarily) through tinder but online dating, where men have the expectation of sex

sorry he has been charged with rape

BBC report

lemsip

Neen

I actually feel also sorry for all the officers who served with him. How must they feel. Some would have had leisure / personal / holidays with him etc it's a very sad situation all around .

His colleagues called him the 'rapist' as a matter of course, that was the nickname he was given so don't waste time feeling sorry for them they should be bought to book.

The rapist name was 3 years before he joined the Met, when working ina civil protection team. Colleagues with established careers there were interviewed on radio 4 after WC was sentenced. Their view was standards had slipped because of recruitment problems. Additionally the were concerned poor recruits found it easier to get into the Met because they’d worked at the civil defence.
Most of the newspapers have chronology of events . I,m defending no one but let’s try and keep up

Galaxy

There is always minimising when women talk about this type of thing.

I am saying that there is a minority of men currently serving in the MET that might rape and kill a woman. Are you saying that there is a majority of men in the MET who are likely to rape and kill a woman? If so, what evidence do you have for this? Putting forward what I believe to be an accurate situation is very different to "minimising" it. There are accurate statistics on the Femicide census website which anyone can read but basically a woman is far more likely to be murdered by their partner or a member of their family than by a perverted policemen whom they have never met. A previous history of abuse and control is often a precursor to the murder of a woman and IMHO this is where the police often fall short of the mark. If we want to protect woman surely it's better to focus on what will lead to better police practices rather than making male policeman the enemy? Couzens is a dangerous man, let's hope that the review uncovers how he became a policeman.

It was rather your comments about advising against speculation that I thought were minimising. And I am not aware that I have said anywhere that the majority of the police force are murderers so it's quite difficult for me to provide evidence for something that I havent said. I am aware of the figures on partner violence against women, that kind of issue has always been part of my work.

OK, well I stand by that, speculation is about forming an opinion on the basis of musing or gossip. How does that help anyone or inform? That is not minimising anything, it is a sensible suggestion surely?

Gransnet must have many members who have husbands, children and grandchildren who are or have been members of the police force. I can't help but wonder how they feel when the police is described in the way that it has been on this thread. The police do a job which most of us would struggle with, they work shifts, they miss Xmas and birthdays with their families, they are often working when others are on holiday, they deal with really horrible situations like accidental deaths/ suicides, face violent people many of whom need medical care not handcuffs, deal with so many situations which many of us would run a mile from yet there seems to be an acceptance that's it's OK to lump them all together when one of their number is found to be a sexually deviant killer. I honestly don't get it, is there an agenda that I have completely missed?

It is precisely because of all the decent policemen that the rotten ones need to be sorted out.

As I said up thread or elsewhere I work with very vulnerable children, there are people doing the same job as me who are abusive, there have to be honest been numerous scandals in the sector, I dont get upset when people talk about these issues, or look at ways to provide safeguarding in my sector. And if I did I am not sure I should be in the job.

Many years Foxie since Orlin was a police officer. There were rotten apples even then but nothing as horrific as recent events.
Fellow officers would weed out and deal with the bad apples with the attitude that a bad cop discredited them all.
We were talking today and reflected that decent young people would be reluctant to join the force with today’s attitude to the police, leaving openings for the less than decent and dedicated.
I sincerely hope we’re wrong about that.
Morale must be at rock bottom. A very public inquiry and complete overhaul of the Met is probably long overdue in order to restore public confidence and police morale.

I spoke to a family member who is in the Police Service. He told me that the removal of the woman at the vigil shown in this post was carried out following guidelines; the police are supposed to have four officers if possible to avoid any harm to the person being removed from the scene. My relative works very long hours, in a part of the service where the worst of human nature is having to be dealt with every day. I am grateful for the thin blue line - without them where might we be, in a very short time?

Galaxy I don't know your exact job, and I do agree with your comments about safeguarding, but is the whole of your area routinely lumped together and condemned? Is there an acronym equivalent to ACAB which is widely shared?

Thank you foxie48, you bring comfort to this mother with your understanding.

People with disabilities

Sorry fat fingers and wrong thread